Tacoma Public Library: Open and Concealed Carry

Recently, I sent an email to Tacoma Public Library (TPL.) It appears that firearms were totally and completely banned (unless you were law enforcement.) This applied not only to open carriers, but concealed carry, even with a valid CPL. I challenged their police and stated it violated current Revised Code of Washington (RCW.) I pointed out this was not private property, but public property and funded by tax payer dollars. After about a month, I received a reply email from David Domkiski, from TPL system. He informed me that he bought this up in a meeting with the Board of Trustees and library staff. They determined the TPL policy regarding open and concealed carry was NOT, in fact, in compliance with current RCW and revised the policy to be so. As of Wednesday, July 17th 2013, the new policy has been amended to allow for open or concealed carry, as long as it is in accordance with current RCW.

Thank you, David Domkiski and TPL Board of Trustees, for being open to discussion and taking the steps necessary to bring TPL Policy into alignment with current RCW.

I have not "tested" this new policy yet, but I have confirmed (from meeting minutes, available on TPL website, this change has indeed been implemented.)

-Rogue Reflections-

RogueReflections said:

Recently, I sent an email to Tacoma Public Library (TPL.) It appears that firearms were totally and completely banned (unless you were law enforcement.) This applied not only to open carriers, but concealed carry, even with a valid CPL. I challenged their police and stated it violated current Revised Code of Washington (RCW.) I pointed out this was not private property, but public property and funded by tax payer dollars. After about a month, I received a reply email from David Domkiski, from TPL system. He informed me that he bought this up in a meeting with the Board of Trustees and library staff. They determined the TPL policy regarding open and concealed carry was NOT, in fact, in compliance with current RCW and revised the policy to be so. As of Wednesday, July 17th 2013, the new policy has been amended to allow for open or concealed carry, as long as it is in accordance with current RCW.

Thank you, David Domkiski and TPL Board of Trustees, for being open to discussion and taking the steps necessary to bring TPL Policy into alignment with current RCW.

I have not "tested" this new policy yet, but I have confirmed (from meeting minutes, available on TPL website, this change has indeed been implemented.)

-Rogue Reflections-

Click to expand...

THANK you for taking action, fulfilling a civic duty, etc.

This is (as contrasted with some people who think "it's not my job" to come forward and inform/address bad policy in govt. agencies) how we effect positive change and improve local govt.

cheers

Good job

Nice, work. I've OC in my local librarys up here in everett and never had an issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJdsfp3Pp8

Here is a thread from an older post for Pierce County:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...y-Visit/page2&highlight=pierce+county+library

http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/about-us/policies/library-rules-conduct.htm

go and check out some books about guns now ... sweet ....

Nicely done.

Bravo Zulu!

Do you have any documentation on this? My library has the same policy, and I spoke with someone about it, who referred the question to an attorney, who said libraries can ban CC w CPL. I didn't pursue the matter, it was something that just came up in passing.

simple enough have the library point out where in this RCW or other RCW they are covered

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

If they are not able to come up with an RCW then carry, OC or CC, is legal.

For Pierce County they follow state law, their rules say:

Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended.

Displaying weapons in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/about-us/policies/library-rules-conduct.htm

Kind of like the local "rules", they don't waste time repeating the RCW's in an attempt to make folks think firearms are illegal....

http://www.krl.org/documents/about/policies/Standards_of_User_Conduct_05-09.pdf

While expressing your appreciation, you might as well spell the gentleman's name right: it's Domkoski. ;-)

509rifas said:

Do you have any documentation on this? My library has the same policy, and I spoke with someone about it, who referred the question to an attorney, who said libraries can ban CC w CPL. I didn't pursue the matter, it was something that just came up in passing.

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A library, public hospital (except for their secure mental ward if they have one) none have the right to exclude a person that is carrying, licensed or unlicensed openly, or concealed with a CPL or recognized equivalent. RCW 9.41.300 very specifically states where carry can be restricted in WA. RCW 9.41.280 restricts carry in primary and secondary schools. That's all folks.

Yes

"Do you have any documentation on this?" I have the Email that was sent to me by the public relations officer. I also have checked their updated policies and they haev changed them. I also have OC'd in the Tacoma Public Library - Kobitech branch and had no issues.

golddigger14s said:

For Pierce County they follow state law, their rules say:

Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended.

Displaying weapons in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/about-us/policies/library-rules-conduct.htm

Click to expand...

This whole thing should have been dealt with a long time ago. About the time that I was taking care of the city codes of University Place, Buckley, Fircrest, and the ferry system I sent out a series of emails to the pierce county library administration. Here they are.


Hi Cpl. :



We’re just finishing the review and research that we needed to do, and are pulling it together for the Board of Trustees. We will be presenting the information to them at their November 10 Board meeting. We will include our recommendation for language changes, which we are still working on.



I will update you the first week of November when the packet for the Board’s meeting is complete. I will follow-up with the results of the Board meeting after November 11.



If you happen to get this and have someone else you would like me to update while you are out of contact, please let me know, otherwise I’ll continue to email you at this address. Best of luck whiel you are gone.



-Georgia



Georgia Lomax

Deputy Director



Pierce County Library System

3005 112 ST E

Tacoma, WA 98446

253-536-6500, ext. 135

www.piercecountylibrary.org



From:
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:41 AM
To: Georgia Lomax
Subject: RE: Library code of conduct violates state law



It's been about a month and I have not heard from you. I don't mean to be pushy but after noon today I will be out of contact for about 7 months. I just wanted to see how everything was going in regards to the policy.

Cpl. USMC
Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Opperandi



From: glomax@piercecountylibrary.org
To: @hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:11:03 -0700
Subject: RE: Library code of conduct violates state law

Dear Cpl. :



The Library’s Executive Director has asked me to look into your concern regarding Library policies.



I wanted to let you know that we’ve received your information and will be looking into it. It will take some time to research the issues involved. At this point I would estimate about a month for the initial review, followed by our evaluation of the initial review and presentation to the Board. This process may generate additional questions to be considered in connection with the issues that you raise, so it will take some time for a formal reply. Thank you for providing the information and citations, and I will keep you informed as we look into your issue.



-Georgia





Georgia Lomax

Deputy Director



Pierce County Library System

3005 112 ST E

Tacoma, WA 98446

253-536-6500, ext. 135

www.piercecountylibrary.org



From:
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:31 PM
To: Pierce County Library Dir
Subject: Library code of conduct violates state law



Dear Mr. Parikh

I would like to bring to the libraries attention to the library code of conduct, and its violation of Washington State Law. Currently the Pierce county library code of conduct is worded: “The following behaviors and activities are not allowed: Possession of weapons. "Firearms" are defined as a weapon by RCW 9.41.010. The code of conduct is in clear violation of RCW 9.41.290 [State Preemption]: “Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.” This RCW is in reference to firearms laws. The whole RCW can be found here http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290 .Considering the fact the library system is a county funded and public resource, there would need to be a provision in RCW 9.41.300 in order to restrict firearms possession in the library. There is no exemption in RCW 9.41.300 that states a county or library system can restrict the right to carry a firearm on its grounds. Under RCW 9.41.290, the weapons section of the library code of conduct in its current verbiage is unenforceable. I would also like to direct your attention to the Washington State Attorney General's Opinion AGO 2008 No. 8 which states "RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities." I request that you advise the board to remove or revise the referenced code in order to prevent and preclude the potential for a lawsuit from illegal citation and/or arrest in violation of state law. I look forward to hearing back from you about this issue


Cpl. USMC
Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Opperandi
253-

Oops...didn't read the whole thread fully. I sent a few letters to Susan Odencrantz* of the Tacoma library last year to which I got no reply. Glad to see somebody got better results.

I'm not sure what the issue is? Their web sit on conduct says this:
Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended. Carrying in violaton, so as long as you are legal, and the gun stays in the holster you should be good.
http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/about-us/policies/library-rules-conduct.htm

Now if we could just do something about the Seattle Public Library Policy:

Category E (Serious Violation Toward Person(s) or Property)
•Possession, except by law enforcement officers, of a firearm on Library property.
•Possession of any other dangerous weapon.

Can you be legally ejected from a public library for engaging in behavior that is prohibited by a library policy that has been repealed by a state statute?

If you refuse to leave, is it trespassing?

I bet someone subjected to a trespass notice for doing so would have standing to sue...

Just in case you hadn't seen the latest news over at TheGUNMAG:

E-Mails Show WA Anti-Gunners Targeted Preemption, CCW
http://www.thegunmag.com/e-mails-show-wa-anti-gunners-targeted-preemption-ccw/

~Brian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Parker_(captain)