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Thread: Gunvernment (sic) saves little girl from cannabis

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Gunvernment (sic) saves little girl from cannabis

    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Rage is not a big enough word to encompass...


    So now we have a two year-old victim of the war on some drugs.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-05-2013 at 09:01 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Nope not a police state at all.......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Killed for no reason it looks like ... CPS says not responsibility ... who authorized the killers to take acre of the child?

    Not saying that CPS is 100% to blame ... but some blame right?

    In the non-gov't world, CPS would be crapping bricks right now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Rage is not a big enough word to encompass...


    So now we have a two year-old victim of the war on some drugs.
    Beyond rage indeed, but war on drugs? How 'bout war on parents? The government should never have the authority to interfere with a family. That is unnecessary evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Killed for no reason it looks like ... CPS says not responsibility ... who authorized the killers to take acre of the child?

    Not saying that CPS is 100% to blame ... but some blame right?

    In the non-gov't world, CPS would be crapping bricks right now...
    I would say its 100% CPS. What kind of sick, power-drunk, self-important bastards would separate a little girl from her parents because they smoked some weed after she went to bed?

    Really!? Taking a child from his parents is so monumental, to both child and parents, it should only be done in the most extreme circumstances.

    Just let the CPS rationale go a little further and parents will be backround checked and licensed to have children--so as to prevent the abuses for which CPS removes children. Think about it for a moment. If removing a child from a home is justifiable, then preventing the problem in the first place is justifiable.

    "Question 5. List all arrests and convictions, for any type violence. Include separately discipline received for fighting in grades K-12."

    "Question 6. List all uses of recreational drugs."
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-05-2013 at 10:18 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I would say its 100% CPS. What kind of sick, power-drunk, self-important bastards would separate a little girl from her parents because they smoked some weed after she went to bed?

    Really!? Taking a child from his parents is so monumental, to both child and parents, it should only be done in the most extreme circumstances.

    Just let the CPS rationale go a little further and parents will be backround checked and licensed to have children--so as to prevent the abuses for which CPS removes children. Think about it for a moment. If removing a child from a home is justifiable, then preventing the problem in the first place is justifiable.

    "Question 5. List all arrests and convictions, for any type violence. Include separately discipline received for fighting in grades K-12."

    "Question 6. List all uses of recreational drugs."
    That is total rubbish.

    WEED?

    Heck, weed is totally legal in my state. It fills my heart with warmth when I respond to a call, and as I enter the living room, a couple of people are sharing bong hits. They got this total "oh #$(#$(" look on their face, then they're "Hey, it's legal now right?" and I said "hell ya. Don't let me interfere with what you are doing!" and they got back to their bong hits!

    Long live citizen initiatives! Long live WA state!

    Anyway, I have had to accompany CPS a couple of times when they have had court orders to remove kids from a home and let me tell you ... it is the most heart rending unpleasant task ever. The last one Mom was a hardcore heroin addict, had failed her last couple of UA's bla bla bla and it may have been justifief, but with the understanding an opioid addict can maintain just fine and be plenty productive as long as they get their periodic fix to maintain homeostasis. Sure, if they are getting gorked out and passing out in the middle of the day and the kid is starving and cruising around in dirty diapers it can be problematic, of course.

    Either way, that was about the most unpleasant duty I have ever had to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I would say its 100% CPS. What kind of sick, power-drunk, self-important bastards would separate a little girl from her parents because they smoked some weed after she went to bed?

    Really!? Taking a child from his parents is so monumental, to both child and parents, it should only be done in the most extreme circumstances.
    True. And that circumstance is abandonment. Relevant to government, there is NO other circumstance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Just let the CPS rationale go a little further and parents will be backround checked and licensed to have children--so as to prevent the abuses for which CPS removes children. Think about it for a moment. If removing a child from a home is justifiable, then preventing the problem in the first place is justifiable.

    "Question 5. List all arrests and convictions, for any type violence. Include separately discipline received for fighting in grades K-12."

    "Question 6. List all uses of recreational drugs."
    Agreed, which is why government can never be allowed to interfere with the family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    True. And that circumstance is abandonment. Relevant to government, there is NO other circumstance.



    Agreed, which is why government can never be allowed to interfere with the family.
    Not just abandonment. What about severe physical abuse? What about sexual abuse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Not just abandonment. What about severe physical abuse? What about sexual abuse?
    If we had no cops, there would be no crimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Not just abandonment. What about severe physical abuse? What about sexual abuse?
    Who gets to define these abuses? Government? No thanks. Regardless, even if some sick individual abuses their children, that is still NO excuse to give the government authority over my family. The family is too sacred to entrust to the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Who gets to define these abuses? Government? No thanks. Regardless, even if some sick individual abuses their children, that is still NO excuse to give the government authority over my family. The family is too sacred to entrust to the government.
    I could go along with it if the parents are indicted and convicted. Severe physical abuse is just spin for aggravated assault. Sexual abuse is just spin for rape, sodomy, and so forth.

    Or, lets say there is PC from plenty of evidence, then arrest the parent(s). At which point the child needs to be cared for since his parent(s) are in jail. If there are no willing relatives--grandparents, etc.--then he can become a temporary ward of the state. But, this theory is far different from removing the child to protect the child. We all know how well government "protects" society.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    That is total rubbish.

    WEED?

    Heck, weed is totally legal in my state. It fills my heart with warmth when I respond to a call, and as I enter the living room, a couple of people are sharing bong hits. They got this total "oh #$(#$(" look on their face, then they're "Hey, it's legal now right?" and I said "hell ya. Don't let me interfere with what you are doing!" and they got back to their bong hits!

    Long live citizen initiatives! Long live WA state!

    Anyway, I have had to accompany CPS a couple of times when they have had court orders to remove kids from a home and let me tell you ... it is the most heart rending unpleasant task ever. The last one Mom was a hardcore heroin addict, had failed her last couple of UA's bla bla bla and it may have been justifief, but with the understanding an opioid addict can maintain just fine and be plenty productive as long as they get their periodic fix to maintain homeostasis. Sure, if they are getting gorked out and passing out in the middle of the day and the kid is starving and cruising around in dirty diapers it can be problematic, of course.

    Either way, that was about the most unpleasant duty I have ever had to do.
    Why do I feel slimed? This is about the twentieth post from WOTPALO where he goes on unnecessarily about something that just happens to include information that would tend to cast him in a good light.

    Its like he's working overtime to get in commentary to make himself look good. Its like listening to a salesman who too often uses phrases like, "just for you", and "for you we can make a special deal", or, "for you, I'll make sure to put the order in today," etc.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-05-2013 at 11:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I could go along with it if the parents are indicted and convicted. Severe physical abuse is just spin for aggravated assault. Sexual abuse is just spin for rape, sodomy, and so forth.

    Or, lets say there is PC from plenty of evidence, then arrest the parent(s). At which point the child needs to be cared for since his parent(s) are in jail. If there are no willing relatives--grandparents, etc.--then he can become a temporary ward of the state. But, this theory is far different from removing the child to protect the child. We all know how well government "protects" society.
    Due process means that after arrest, the defendant is released on bail. The parents arent in jail, they are at home waiting for trial.

    Sorry, but I don't have the privilege of living in your ivory tower where you don't see the horrendous physical abuse some kids suffer. I am talking horrendous bvurns, broken limbs, etc. not to mention forcible anal and vaginal rape of preteens etc.

    In those circs, thank god we DO step in and remove the kids from the home before further abuse andor death happens. And sometimes we are too late and we do have dead kids.

    The criminal trial necessarily places the defendants rights as paramount. But when it comes to the safety of the kids, we place THEIR rights as paramount so they are necessarily different processes.

    We don't hold (in almost all cases) parents in jail the entire time pending trial.

    In some case, we need to and do remove kids from horrendous abuse and sexual abuse.

    You get to live in comfortable ignorance without having to see the wounds and the aftermath. I don't have that luxury. Don't let cases like this ridiculous cannabis debacle dissuade you from recognizing there are real profound cases of abuse where we need CPS etc. and they act properly and kids are protected from further abuse. No kid deserves to get 2nd and 3rd degree burns, broken bones, raped, etc. by their parents.

    Outrage over this CBS debacle doesn't detract from the fact that there are real cases of horrendous abuse out there where we definitely need the state to literally save lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Why do I feel slimed? This is about the twentieth post from WOTPALO where he goes on unnecessarily about something that just happens to include information that would tend to cast him in a good light.

    Its like he's working overtime to get in commentary to make himself look good. Its like listening to a salesman who too often uses phrases like, "just for you", and "for you we can make a special deal", or, "for you, I'll make sure to put the order in today," etc.
    "Today and today only one dollar over MSR" "Such a deal for you"

    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 08-06-2013 at 12:04 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Why do I feel slimed? This is about the twentieth post from WOTPALO where he goes on unnecessarily about something that just happens to include information that would tend to cast him in a good light.

    Its like he's working overtime to get in commentary to make himself look good. Its like listening to a salesman who too often uses phrases like, "just for you", and "for you we can make a special deal", or, "for you, I'll make sure to put the order in today," etc.
    I have no idea what the hell you are talking about except that it makes you sound like the typical delusional over the top anti-cop bigot who gets upset when their narrow preconceived notion of what cops are gets upset by reality.

    Are you referring to the MJ thing? Are you THAT petty?

    Do me a favor. If your fragile ego and narrow worldview leads you to feel "slimed" by reading my posts, then do yourself a favor and don't read them. Protect yourself in your soft little coccoon where the scary people can't hurt you and where you can continue to believe the world is just as you perceive it to be.

    I'm not casting myself in any light. I'm just talkin'

    I'll speak truth no matter how it makes me look, but considering how many of my posts are me arguing with people. ,the idea that im trying to make myself look good is laffably absurd. You are all over the map,.man

    Take your fragile self elsewhere if the real world is too hard for you to deal with
    Last edited by PALO; 08-06-2013 at 12:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    SNIP Sorry, but I don't have the privilege of living in your ivory tower where you don't see the horrendous physical abuse some kids suffer. I am talking horrendous bvurns, broken limbs, etc. not to mention forcible anal and vaginal rape of preteens etc.
    Evasion.

    You know darned good and well we're talking about CPS removing children for specious reasons.

    OK, so the parent(s) make bail, there was still PC of felonies against the child, not merely smoking weed or other inappropriately intrusive nanny-state reason.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    True. And that circumstance is abandonment. Relevant to government, there is NO other circumstance.



    Agreed, which is why government can never be allowed to interfere with the family.
    yea, that makes a lot of sense. So, in cases where a parent gives a kid 3rd degree burns by placing their hand on a stove burner to punish them, I'll remember your briliant insight and Ill make sure not to remove the kid from the home or arrest the parent lest I dare interfere with the family.

    Here's a hint, genius. Some families include people who do horrible torture-level abuse towards other family members. And you are goshdarn skippy the government is going to step in and interfere in such cases. Whether you like it or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    SNIP Take your fragile self elsewhere if the real world is too hard for you to deal with
    I'm not the one who took another's post personally and got bent out of shape over, lemme see, an accusation that he was self-promoting.

    As Shakespeare wrote, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Evasion.

    You know darned good and well we're talking about CPS removing children for specious reasons.

    OK, so the parent(s) make bail, there was still PC of felonies against the child, not merely smoking weed or other inappropriately intrusive nanny-state reason.
    No kidding sherlock. But when geniuses in this thread make statements like government should never be allowed to interfere with the family, they need to be slapped in the face with reality. The reality is that there are all kinds of awful things some parents do to kids and many cps workers do great work, tireless work, with crappy pay and ridiculous caseloads to do their best to help kids who have been severely abused. I've worked with several CPS workers who literally do god's work in saving kids from horrendous situations. Yes, THIS case with the MJ from what we know of it, seems like a RIDICULOUS overreaction and we can all guffaw and laff at the dumb social workers and their overreaction to a harmless plant that doesn't even HAVE a ld50 value and that nobody should give a crap if a parent smokes it around the kids or not.

    But there's a whole other reality that several posts in this thread ignore, which is that there are REAL cases of abuse, horrendous abuse, that CPS gets involved in and thank god they do. While all the cynical know-nothings are comfortably typing away with their oh so superior attitudes, these people are doing good work to save kids from abuse and I'm not going to sweep that under the rug or go along with the no nothings who say "government should never interfere with the family".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm not the one who took another's post personally and got bent out of shape over, lemme see, an accusation that he was self-promoting.

    As Shakespeare wrote, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
    Your silliness doesn't get any better when it's framed in iambic pentameter.

    Get over yourself if you think I'm "self promoting". I will speak the truth whether it seems like "self promoting" or whatnot. From my experience, most line cops (real cops, not cop-o-crats) think MJ is a ridiculous thing to waste our time with enforcing. A lot of my coworkers smoked a bit back in the day. I happened not to just because I wasn't into it, was more into playijng guitar and surfing, but my friends did.

    Stoners aren't the ones robbing banks to feed their habit, or smacking their girlfriends around, or assaulting us, so myself and most cops I know have long wanted MJ to be legal

    Regardless, if I'm not arguing needlessly with anticop bigots, I'm 'self promoting?"

    get over yourself and stop obsessing over personality, be an adult and get back to discussing actual issues which is what I was doing, not devolving to petty personality bullcrap
    Last edited by PALO; 08-06-2013 at 12:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Your silliness doesn't get any better when it's framed in iambic pentameter.

    Get over yourself if you think I'm "self promoting". I will speak the truth whether it seems like "self promoting" or whatnot. From my experience, most line cops (real cops, not cop-o-crats) think MJ is a ridiculous thing to waste our time with enforcing. A lot of my coworkers smoked a bit back in the day. I happened not to just because I wasn't into it, was more into playijng guitar and surfing, but my friends did.

    Stoners aren't the ones robbing banks to feed their habit, or smacking their girlfriends around, or assaulting us, so myself and most cops I know have long wanted MJ to be legal

    Regardless, if I'm not arguing needlessly with anticop bigots, I'm 'self promoting?"

    get over yourself and stop obsessing over personality, be an adult and get back to discussing actual issues which is what I was doing, not devolving to petty personality bullcrap
    I don't know. You're the one with two heated posts in a row that include name-calling, not me.

    Nice try on the failed attempt to nullify the Shakespeare quote. That quote applies even more now that you've heaved in two heated protest posts.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-06-2013 at 12:32 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Just a little levity...

    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I don't know. You're the one with two heated posts in a row that include name-calling, not me.

    Nice try on the failed attempt to nullify the Shakespeare quote. That quote applies even more now that you've heaved in two heated protest posts.
    You can troll all you want, but I prefer the discourse with the adults who discuss issues not who devolve to personal attacks etc.

    There is good reason why I was warned about you and the cadre of circle jerkers but it gets tiresome to come down to your level and do the high school thing. If and when you can elevate to discussing issues, feel free to join the adults

    cheers

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    You can troll all you want, but I prefer the discourse with the adults who discuss issues not who devolve to personal attacks etc.

    There is good reason why I was warned about you and the cadre of circle jerkers but it gets tiresome to come down to your level and do the high school thing. If and when you can elevate to discussing issues, feel free to join the adults

    cheers
    Well maybe you should try your message on a site where the members will kiss your grand backside. Most of us don't have a taste for arse kissing here.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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