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Update on my Amelia County CHP renewal.

Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

The previous issuance of a CHP is evidence of that.
Click to expand...

builtjeep said:
Which is a matter of court record.

User stated as much in my thread.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-at-it-again&p=1919117&viewfull=1#post1919117
Click to expand...

My respect for Dan Hawes is well known - I think the wording/verbiage used is most important so I am not in disagreement with him. No additional proof of competancy is being required - only a demonstration that it was done initially.

If an applicant (renewal) had a permit issued by the Newport News Clerk and were now applying in Chesterfield County, then the Chesterfield Clerk does not have access to the NN files and to my knowledge the VSP does not have any records as to your competancy. I believe the recent Code revisions were intended to clarify some of these issues - think that G -6 is just one such an item.
 
TFred

TFred

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Grapeshot said:
There are those that state that "proof of competence" must be satisfied even on renewal permits - think that Mike Stollenwerk was one such - I have come to agree myself.

Now before the flames begin - How will the clerk know whether this requirement has been satisfied? Sure you wrote down the number of your expiring CHP - and how will the clerk confirm the validity of that?

Solution is found in section G-6 of § 18.2-308.

  • G. The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire:
  • 6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof...
  • http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?131+ful+CHAP0559
Note you are not submitting "to any additional demonstration of competence" - you are only demonstrating that this was fulfilled by having a previously issued CHP. So when the Clerk asks for a photocopy of your CHP, he/she is only fulfilling an obligation to insure that your original certification was in fact seen somewhere. The previous issuance of a CHP is evidence of that.
Click to expand...
So the question seems to be, who is responsible for getting the proof in front of the clerk?

One might consider whether or not such proof is correctly classified as a "part of the application".

I suspect if a clerk called the VSP, they would probably be willing to confirm the existence of the current CHP. But is that the clerk's responsibility?

TFred
 
C

cyras21

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This is exactly the same BS I went through with Frederick County, took it as far as the judge and he refused to issue my permit unless I submitted proof of competency again! I even brought in the application with initial permit highlighted.
 
B

builtjeep

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cyras21 said:
This is exactly the same BS I went through with Frederick County, took it as far as the judge and he refused to issue my permit unless I submitted proof of competency again! I even brought in the application with initial permit highlighted.
Click to expand...

So another issue that needs to be either fixed, or used in support of Constitutional Carry.

I have to side with Mr. Hawes on this issue. I cannot believe that one clerk cannot verify the permit that was issued by another court. They can damned sure find any citation or warrant issued, they can find any other case number, what makes these case records different?
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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TFred said:
So the question seems to be, who is responsible for getting the proof in front of the clerk?

One might consider whether or not such proof is correctly classified as a "part of the application".

I suspect if a clerk called the VSP, they would probably be willing to confirm the existence of the current CHP. But is that the clerk's responsibility?

TFred
Click to expand...

BTW - I do not like my present belief/understanding of the statute.

It's frustrating that such a seemingly simple problem hasn't been resolved. Logically, I think the burden should be on the LEA doing the background check. They have the ability to determine whether or not you have or have had a valid permit - problem solved.
 
celticredneck

celticredneck

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Grapeshot said:
My respect for Dan Hawes is well known - I think the wording/verbiage used is most important so I am not in disagreement with him. No additional proof of competancy is being required - only a demonstration that it was done initially.

If an applicant (renewal) had a permit issued by the Newport News Clerk and were now applying in Chesterfield County, then the Chesterfield Clerk does not have access to the NN files and to my knowledge the VSP does not have any records as to your competancy. I believe the recent Code revisions were intended to clarify some of these issues - think that G -6 is just one such an item.
Click to expand...

That should not apply in this case because my original permit was issued by this same court, and to the best of my recollection, the same clerk. They should have the original documents in their files.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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celticredneck said:
That should not apply in this case because my original permit was issued by this same court, and to the best of my recollection, the same clerk. They should have the original documents in their files.
Click to expand...
I understand that, but the revised Code doesn't say unless you applying at the same court/jurisdiction.
 
celticredneck

celticredneck

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Well, we shall see what happens. I sent in a new freshly notarized application without any of the "extra-legal" requirements via registered mail yesterday at 1:30 PM. I fully expect it to be returned to me before the end of next week. But, at least they will have to use their own envelope and stamp.
 
celticredneck

celticredneck

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Well, I have the receipt, saying that the clerk received my corrected application and letter explaining why their other requirements are illegal. They signed for it on Aug 12 It is now the 19th and they have yet to cash my check. Maybe they are just holding it because I did not send a SASE for them to mail my application back to me. If they do not send me my permit by Sept 25, (45 days are up) I'll have to go up and ask for my temporary permit.
 
peter nap

peter nap

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celticredneck said:
Well, I have the receipt, saying that the clerk received my corrected application and letter explaining why their other requirements are illegal. They signed for it on Aug 12 It is now the 19th and they have yet to cash my check. Maybe they are just holding it because I did not send a SASE for them to mail my application back to me. If they do not send me my permit by Sept 25, (45 days are up) I'll have to go up and ask for my temporary permit.
Click to expand...

This is being watched and worked on but remember, we can't get information. Probably a good idea to update Grapeshot every now and then.
 
celticredneck

celticredneck

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Just a final update on this thread. My permit was in the mail this afternoon. I would definitely like to thank those here who worked behind the scenes to "help this clerk understand the Virginia laws". Hopefully this will not be a problem in Amelia County anymore. But, my wife's permit is due for renewal in 2016, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens then.
 
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