Starbucks Appreciation Day Newtown

davidmcbeth said:

Such as Chicago?

I see ... they have 1st amendment rights ... but we only have partial 1st amendment rights ...

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I didn't say that, that is your interpretation.
Your right... it is our right to carry guns and exercise our right to free speech.

Its also a right to put a mosque at the location of the twin towers. How'd that go over?

Its about good judgement, morals, decency, and compassion to a community that was traumatized.

CTSurvivor said:

I didn't say that, that is your interpretation.
Your right... it is our right to carry guns and exercise our right to free speech.

Its also a right to put a mosque at the location of the twin towers. How'd that go over?

Its about good judgement, morals, decency, and compassion to a community that was traumatized.

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Hmm. So no one can ever have a carry group meet anywhere in Newtown or ever again? Because your argument leans towards that conclusion.

Now anytime people will want to meet and carry, these commie mommies will be there and the establishment will just shut down?

And NO they don't have a right to speak about taking away my guns without me speaking my mind. Like they did in Newtown on 29 JAN 13...remember that night in Newtown? I have not forgotten.

When I was younger, in uniform, and overseas when someone bad mouthed the USA I would beat the living crap out of them. I guess I was not the best ambassador back then. I have really calmed down a lot from my younger days, believe it or not.

Rich B said:

The aftermath:

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/connec...e-early-to-avoid-gun-controversy#.UgWKLJLVBmw

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-newtown-starbucks-rally-20130809,0,7313792.story

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http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Gun-rights-activists-take-stand-at-Newtown-4720320.php

davidmcbeth said:

Hmm. So no one can ever have a carry group meet anywhere in Newtown or ever again? Because your argument leans towards that conclusion.

Now anytime people will want to meet and carry, these commie mommies will be there and the establishment will just shut down?

And NO they don't have a right to speak about taking away my guns without me speaking my mind. Like they did in Newtown on 29 JAN 13...remember that night in Newtown? I have not forgotten.

When I was younger, in uniform, and overseas when someone bad mouthed the USA I would beat the living crap out of them. I guess I was not the best ambassador back then. I have really calmed down a lot from my younger days, believe it or not.

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There you again drawing conclusions. I didnt say no person should never carry there again.
You avoided my question about the mosque. Try putting yourself in someone elses shoes from Newtown for a minute.
What people did by showing up there was no different than pickiting at a soilders funeral.

The biggest issue is people gave false statements to the media saying people just called one another the morning of to meet.
Thats a lie and people know it.
The CCDL did not organize the event? BS! It was organized on their facebook page with members of their executive board moderating the discussion. They even send a mass mailing to members telling them not to give statements to the media stating it was organized.
Id love to know where Scott Wilson was?

CTSurvivor said:

There you again drawing conclusions. I didnt say no person should never carry there again.
You avoided my question about the mosque. Try putting yourself in someone elses shoes from Newtown for a minute.
What people did by showing up there was no different than pickiting at a soilders funeral.

The biggest issue is people gave false statements to the media saying people just called one another the morning of to meet.
Thats a lie and people know it.
The CCDL did not organize the event? BS! It was organized on their facebook page with members of their executive board moderating the discussion. They even send a mass mailing to members telling them not to give statements to the media stating it was organized.
Id love to know where Scott Wilson was?

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Well, I don't do FB so I cannot comment on the role CCDL had - but this was a nationwide thing IMO, I assume the FB pg was just relaying some information about where & when ... and the mosque, it did not bother me at all..its a house of worship.

I'm from Chicago ... shootings are quite common there .. I have had friends shot and killed ... it never made me go crazy.

And if it would have happened next door to me with a starbucks right next to that, I would not complain and would support people carrying .. the next day...our 2nd amendment rights are that important.

Of course, I support our 2nd amendment rights ... its during these times, the level of support is tested. My support is absolute. 20 or 1000 , it does not matter. Disrespectful, inconsiderate, immoral .. my support is absolute and inviolate.

And people worries about saber rattling resulting in legislation - here's a clue: they will try to pass laws anyway. They did with PA13-3, right? And we did nothing to cause the passage of the law. Recall in 2011 where a guy said he would shoot people who voted for the 2011 bill to limit mags to 10 rds? We had none of that this year ... But in 2011, the bill did not pass but this year one did.

CTSurvivor said:

Id love to know where Scott Wilson was?

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I assume he was cleaning and oiling his guns ... or doing other such important work

davidmcbeth said:

I assume he was cleaning and oiling his guns ... or doing other such important work

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I know he visits here and hope he could comment.
Just out of curiousity has anyone ever seen him open carry in public with the media around?

CTSurvivor said:

I typically stay out of highly controversial topics suck as this one.
However, it was a very classless and distasteful thing to do trying to drum up crowds to go out of their way to Newtown.
People should be ashamed of themselves.
We already caught sb1160 and wait until you see what happens when you keep poking the hornets nest.

Many 2nd amendment supporters seem to forget others 1st amendment rights and jump on anyone who opposes 2a carriers.

If these people keep up with this ignorant crap they will start finding no carry towns and cities such as in other parts of the country.

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While I will yield to the people closer to the situation that I, nothing has ever been gained by hiding behind the door or in the closet.

When will it be acceptable to have a public meet-up of responsible OCers? Seriously, give me a date - after 12 mo?, after 2 years?.....or never because that would be too insensitive?

Avoid places where kooks harmed/attacked people - not in Newtown, not in Boston, not in Oak Creek, not in Aurora, not in Seattle, not in Tuson, and most certainly not in Littleton or Blacksburg. (sarcasm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

We are winning, advancing OC and the RKBA cause, dramatically and that is not happening by sitting on our hands and wearing a muzzle! If your legislators are making knee-jerk gestures then convince them otherwise or replace them - get involved.

Point of fact: Nothing (repeat) nothing about this or any other mass shooting was about responsible people carrying for personal protection, whether OC or CC. To tie OC to those horrific events is IMO a blatant red herring and agenda driven - if allowed to go unanswered accomplishes exactly what the antis want - they win by default, because we backed away. A mass shooting or any other despicable similar act angers me, because I know what was needed to have potentially stopped it (minimized, reduced the carnage). Law enforcement brought those tools with them - problem is they weren't there when needed most. Ladies and gentlemen, we are the first responders, we are the first line of defense. Take us out of the equation and the carnage will happen again. The choice is yours.

Be part of the solution, not party to the problem.

Grapeshot said:

While I will yield to the people closer to the situation that I, nothing has ever been gained by hiding behind the door or in the closet.

When will it be acceptable to have a public meet-up of responsible OCers? Seriously, give me a date - after 12 mo?, after 2 years?.....or never because that would be too insensitive?

Avoid places where kooks harmed/attacked people - not in Newtown, not in Boston, not in Oak Creek, not in Aurora, not in Seattle, not in Tuson, and most certainly not in Littleton or Blacksburg. (sarcasm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

We are winning, advancing OC and the RKBA cause, dramatically and that is not happening by sitting on our hands and wearing a muzzle! If your legislators are making knee-jerk gestures then convince them otherwise or replace them - get involved.

Point of fact: Nothing (repeat) nothing about this or any other mass shooting was about responsible people carrying for personal protection, whether OC or CC. To tie OC to those horrific events is IMO a blatant red herring and agenda driven - if allowed to go unanswered accomplishes exactly what the antis want - they win by default, because we backed away. A mass shooting or any other despicable similar act angers me, because I know what was needed to have potentially stopped it (minimized, reduced the carnage). Law enforcement brought those tools with them - problem is they weren't there when needed most. Ladies and gentlemen, we are the first responders, we are the first line of defense. Take us out of the equation and the carnage will happen again. The choice is yours.

Be part of the solution, not party to the problem.

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So what about when the business asks you not to hold rallies in their locations?

Rich B said:

So what about when the business asks you not to hold rallies in their locations?

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Are you an advocate for BUSINESSES RIGHTS or carriers rights?

You should be exclaiming : violation of our civil rights !

Grapeshot & me are on the same page here. WE DID NOT KILL THOSE CHILDREN

STOP IT STOP IT

STOP EQUATING US WITH A KILLER

Rich B said:

So what about when the business asks you not to hold rallies in their locations?

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I believe my statement about yielding to people closer to the situation covers that. If a business choses to not accommodate me, then I will make plans for somewhere else, but I will remember and spend my money accordingly.

Also will continue to open the channels of communication - we have successfully converted Darden Industries (Red Lobster & Olive Garden), a local sub shop chain, pizza shops, etc. In fact a vast majority of this type of business in VA allow carry either way. I asure you that is no accident.

Grapeshot said:

I believe my statement about yielding to people closer to the situation covers that. If a business choses to not accommodate me, then I will make plans for somewhere else, but I will remember and spend my money accordingly.

Also will continue to open the channels of communication - we have successfully converted Darden Industries (Red Lobster & Olive Garden), a local sub shop chain, pizza shops, etc. In fact a vast majority of this type of business in VA allow carry either way. I asure you that is no accident.

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Over time, these issues will be seen as civil rights issues ... this should be the focus of forcing businesses not to violate our rights.

It has to start somewhere ... just like the civil rights of blacks in the 50s, 60's and 70's.

Grapeshot said:

While I will yield to the people closer to the situation that I, nothing has ever been gained by hiding behind the door or in the closet.

When will it be acceptable to have a public meet-up of responsible OCers? Seriously, give me a date - after 12 mo?, after 2 years?.....or never because that would be too insensitive?

Avoid places where kooks harmed/attacked people - not in Newtown, not in Boston, not in Oak Creek, not in Aurora, not in Seattle, not in Tuson, and most certainly not in Littleton or Blacksburg. (sarcasm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

We are winning, advancing OC and the RKBA cause, dramatically and that is not happening by sitting on our hands and wearing a muzzle! If your legislators are making knee-jerk gestures then convince them otherwise or replace them - get involved.

Point of fact: Nothing (repeat) nothing about this or any other mass shooting was about responsible people carrying for personal protection, whether OC or CC. To tie OC to those horrific events is IMO a blatant red herring and agenda driven - if allowed to go unanswered accomplishes exactly what the antis want - they win by default, because we backed away. A mass shooting or any other despicable similar act angers me, because I know what was needed to have potentially stopped it (minimized, reduced the carnage). Law enforcement brought those tools with them - problem is they weren't there when needed most. Ladies and gentlemen, we are the first responders, we are the first line of defense. Take us out of the equation and the carnage will happen again. The choice is yours.

Be part of the solution, not party to the problem.

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OK, forgetting the debatable "classiness", or whether an OC meetup in Newtown is in good taste, this meetup was directly contrary to the express wishes of Starbucks. Which, I might add, has valid business reasons to not want to get drawn into the controversy. They are, after all, an international company.

I'd be down for OC rallies in Newtown, too, if I lived there. What I would not be down for is staging a meetup specifically intended to generate publicity, on private property - property whose owners have already indicated they don't want to be drawn into a political debate (which is every bit as much their right as is ours to be politically motivated). That is in bad taste.

Starbucks electing to "follow state law" is a nod of respect to us in its own way, but it was not returned by those of us who decided "Starbucks appreciation day" would be cute.

See the discussion in the other thread:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...me-to-fine-a-new-coffee-place-Starbucks-caves

davidmcbeth said:

Over time, these issues will be seen as civil rights issues ... this should be the focus of forcing businesses not to violate our rights.

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David, could you please explain to the forum what right you believe Starbucks has "violated"?

I look at it like this Starbucks was put on the spot so the new town closed for the day. Not allowing ANYONE to get coffee not just OCers.

Side note I was at my Starbucks here where I live and soon as I got in the door I hear "here comes another one" I laughed.. I was the only one there from 2-8pm I was in my lappy top.



-Matt of Hillsboro OR-

marshaul said:

OK, forgetting the debatable "classiness", or whether an OC meetup in Newtown is in good taste, this meetup was directly contrary to the express wishes of Starbucks. Which, I might add, has valid business reasons to not want to get drawn into the controversy. They are, after all, an international company.

I'd be down for OC rallies in Newtown, too, if I lived there. What I would not be down for is staging a meetup specifically intended to generate publicity, on private property - property whose owners have already indicated they don't want to be drawn into a political debate (which is every bit as much their right as is ours to be politically motivated). That is in bad taste.

Starbucks electing to "follow state law" is a nod of respect to us in its own way, but it was not returned by those of us who decided "Starbucks appreciation day" would be cute.

See the discussion in the other thread:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...me-to-fine-a-new-coffee-place-Starbucks-caves

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Well said.

Despite the notions of trolls and hacks, we have not indicated anything but support about however anyone carries or really where they do it. I have been OCing at Starbucks probably more than any normal people should. Why? Because I OCed a lot and I like coffee a lot. Founding an organization required a lot of ad hoc meeting spots as well.

No one cares if you OC in Connecticut. Literally. No one. Open carry is, for all intents and purposes, a settled issue. If we run into individual cases of abuse, we will deal with them appropriately. If people want to have gatherings while OCing, that is fine, although we can discuss tactics and strategies for PR messages.

The issue here is solely about respecting property rights. Starbucks said it was fine to carry however you want (in the confines of the law) in their stores. That is fine. That is how we feel as well. That is not 'pro gun'. That is normal. Every business minus two that I could easily recall (one of which I was arrested in) have been at least the same way.

The very concept of Starbucks appreciation day is one that is ripe with a complete lack of understanding of the topics involved. Using their name for something that they expressly asked people not to is not only stupid, it is wrong. But besides that, it is amazing that people think Starbucks is some kind of gun rights friendly business for their stance. They are just normal. As they should be. And the point of open carry 'movements' is normalization. Making spectacles out of every open carry experience flies in the face of this goal.

Just carry how you wish to. Stop making a big problem where there is none.

marshaul said:

David, could you please explain to the forum what right you believe Starbucks has "violated"?

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I believe we have a civil right to carriage. It's discrimination ...

All these pro-gun rights organizations have only attacking pro-gunners are showing their true colors ...

davidmcbeth said:

I believe we have a civil right to carriage. It's discrimination ...

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Define "carriage".

CCDL in no way shape pr form organized this event. The organization had no position on encouraging people to go to Newtown, or any other Starbucks location. My concern was people stating they were CCDL members to the media, and having whatever they said as an official statement.

If we organized it, we would own it. That's a fact. Far be it from me to tell someone else where and if they can carry somewhere lawful.

Scott Wilson
CCDL, Inc.

romma said:

CCDL in no way shape pr form organized this event. The organization had no position on encouraging people to go to Newtown, or any other Starbucks location. My concern was people stating they were CCDL members to the media, and having whatever they said as an official statement.

If we organized it, we would own it. That's a fact. Far be it from me to tell someone else where and if they can carry somewhere lawful.

Scott Wilson
CCDL, Inc.

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Scott - thank you and CCDL for clarifying this and everything you and your group does for CT firearms enthusiasts...