carry question ?

Glock214 · Aug 9, 2013

Any of you carry around an ex either cc or oc? If so, what are reasons an ex could try and prevent me from carrying? Mind you, I carry responsibly, and always lawful with audio and video, at the minimum only audio to protect myself. I do have cpl, and have for some time now. Oc normally except where carry is not allowed. I do cc around the ex though, however it is now known I carry, and she has no knowledge of Michigan firearms laws. Any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Glock214

casper · Aug 9, 2013

Just make sure your recording, cause they can lie and make trouble for you.

Glock214 · Aug 9, 2013

casper said:
Just make sure your recording, cause they can lie and make trouble for you.

Thank you, I've been recording meetings with her or any type of contact anyway, while carrying I am very careful and always record everything, and back it up to pc. You from holland?

Raggs · Aug 9, 2013

Glock214 said:
Any of you carry around an ex either cc or oc? If so, what are reasons an ex could try and prevent me from carrying? Mind you, I carry responsibly, and always lawful with audio and video, at the minimum only audio to protect myself. I do have cpl, and have for some time now. Oc normally except where carry is not allowed. I do cc around the ex though, however it is now known I carry, and she has no knowledge of Michigan firearms laws. Any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Glock214

How was she about you carrying before you separated? If you think she will cause trouble and you have children together she could try to make problems. Protect yourself anyway you can.

Glock214 · Aug 9, 2013

Raggs said:
How was she about you carrying before you separated? If you think she will cause trouble and you have children together she could try to make problems. Protect yourself anyway you can.

I did not carry while with her, I started to carry after we separated. We do have children from the marriage. She was saying it will not be around the girls ever. I advised her that was not going to happen. I carry for the safety of my family, and know firearm laws in Michigan. So she may try to make life hard. I was as usual recording everything.

budlight · Aug 9, 2013

Glock214 said:
I did not carry while with her, I started to carry after we separated. We do have children from the marriage. She was saying it will not be around the girls ever. I advised her that was not going to happen. I carry for the safety of my family, and know firearm laws in Michigan. So she may try to make life hard. I was as usual recording everything.

As long as you are lawfully carrying, she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Her argument in court on this would be no different then if your argument was she transports the kids in a small compact and that is not as safe as the SUV you drive.

DrTodd · Aug 9, 2013

budlight said:
As long as you are lawfully carrying, she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Her argument in court on this would be no different then if your argument was she transports the kids in a small compact and that is not as safe as the SUV you drive.

Although you may think that is logically analogous, the court may not. The judge MAY have an issue. I know that I have mentioned the issue with you before, Glock214. In terms of "the best interest of the children" the judge could easily, and it may be likely, decide that loaded firearms and young children don't mix. In my case, I almost lost any contact with my children because I had firearms...and he was under the impression I only had a shotgun and a rifle. With the costly intervention of my attorney to the tune of approximately $5k, the judge maintained the then current arrangement if 1) I kept the firearms out of site and 2) I agreed to maintain them in a "broken down" condition, encased, with trigger locks. Additionally all ammunition needed to be stored out of site in a locked container. My ex didn't even know that I had a CPL at that time and my kids didn't know I had a pistol because, even though I OCd around them, they were too young to really explain that to their mother.

Later, of course they talked to their mom about it...positively, and I get a call from my attorney that my ex is planning to go to court over it. My attorney stated she received a call from my ex's attorney who, because he was sick of dealing with his client, instead called my attorney about the possible request to change parenting time and or custody. I decided then to only CC around them for a while. About 1.5 years ago I decided enough time had gone by and again OCd around my children. After doing so my daughter told me that she overheard my ex talking to an attorney on the phone saying that she wanted to take me to court over the loaded pistols to which my children were exposed... and her new husband was against going to court because they only had the statements from my children that I OCd and he didn't want them to have to testify "against" their dad. Knowing the MONTHS of grief, the expense, and the way I was grilled regarding my having a shotgun and a rifle on my premises despite them being secured to a level that far and above exceeds even the transportation requirements under state law, I now exclusively CC in her presence.

xmanhockey7 · Aug 9, 2013

DrTodd said:
Although you may think that is logically analogous, the court may not. The judge MAY have an issue. I know that I have mentioned the issue with you before, Glock214. In terms of "the best interest of the children" the judge could easily, and it may be likely, decide that loaded firearms and young children don't mix. In my case, I almost lost any contact with my children because I had firearms...and he was under the impression I only had a shotgun and a rifle. With the costly intervention of my attorney to the tune of approximately $5k, the judge maintained the then current arrangement if 1) I kept the firearms out of site and 2) I agreed to maintain them in a "broken down" condition, encased, with trigger locks. Additionally all ammunition needed to be stored out of site in a locked container. My ex didn't even know that I had a CPL at that time and my kids didn't know I had a pistol because, even though I OCd around them, they were too young to really explain that to their mother.

Later, of course they talked to their mom about it...positively, and I get a call from my attorney that my ex is planning to go to court over it. My attorney stated she received a call from my ex's attorney who, because he was sick of dealing with his client, instead called my attorney about the possible request to change parenting time and or custody. I decided then to only CC around them for a while. About 1.5 years ago I decided enough time had gone by and again OCd around my children. After doing so my daughter told me that she overheard my ex talking to an attorney on the phone saying that she wanted to take me to court over the loaded pistols to which my children were exposed... and her new husband was against going to court because they only had the statements from my children that I OCd and he didn't want them to have to testify "against" their dad. Knowing the MONTHS of grief, the expense, and the way I was grilled regarding my having a shotgun and a rifle on my premises despite them being secured to a level that far and above exceeds even the transportation requirements under state law, I now exclusively CC in her presence.

Un-freaking-real.

OneForAll · Aug 10, 2013

The judge said keep them put up, broke down, and away from your own children. Can you even go to the range with your kids to properly teach them? Having guns around your kids and teaching them how to use them is the best way to teach gun safety. Keeping kids from being taught about guns can unfortunately turn out like this... Hey so and so, look what I found in my dads closet. Cool let me see, BANG....

casper · Aug 10, 2013

Gotta love Ex's. They love to have the court system fight their battles for them, and the lawyers love to take your money to do it. After all it's not what you did, it's what can you pay.

DrTodd · Aug 10, 2013

OneForAll said:
The judge said keep them put up, broke down, and away from your own children. Can you even go to the range with your kids to properly teach them? Having guns around your kids and teaching them how to use them is the best way to teach gun safety. Keeping kids from being taught about guns can unfortunately turn out like this... Hey so and so, look what I found in my dads closet. Cool let me see, BANG....

Agreed.
That was about 8 years ago; now I take them out shooting as their interest and time permits (3-4x year). As far as long guns go, I no longer keep them secured in such an extreme manner and even bought my daughter a 10/22 for her 10th birthday.

Regarding my carrying, I OC approximately 80%-90% of my time. If I'm anywhere near my ex, I'm usually in my car while picking up my children so an openly carried pistol is not an issue; they walk to and from the house themselves. When they were younger and I had to get out of my car to get them, I usually covered my pistol for the few minutes it took. I CC now if I have to get them but can only recall one time in the last year that I needed to get out of my vehicle. The inconvenience of CC for a few minutes a year pales in comparison to the possible family court repercussions of OCing.

FreeInAZ · Aug 10, 2013

After reading this thread, it has only confirmed for me that our "justice" system is far from just.

Judges are suposed to act on the law period! No room for personal views or emotions, yet we have many, many judges that do exactly that, turn the bench into their personal soap box to legislate from. :banghead:

OneForAll · Aug 10, 2013

FreeInAZ said:
After reading this thread, it has only confirmed for me that our "justice" system is far from just.

Judges are suposed to act on the law period! No room for personal views or emotions, yet we have many, many judges that do exactly that, turn the bench into their personal soap box to legislate from. :banghead:

Quoted for the truth!

Glock214 · Aug 11, 2013

I think I need an attorney now DrTodd. Can you recommend a good one? This sounds like something my ex would do. I don't want to lose my firearm or my children. I'm so close to getting an interview for a deputy reserve position too. I can't lose things now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

DrTodd said:
Although you may think that is logically analogous, the court may not. The judge MAY have an issue. I know that I have mentioned the issue with you before, Glock214. In terms of "the best interest of the children" the judge could easily, and it may be likely, decide that loaded firearms and young children don't mix. In my case, I almost lost any contact with my children because I had firearms...and he was under the impression I only had a shotgun and a rifle. With the costly intervention of my attorney to the tune of approximately $5k, the judge maintained the then current arrangement if 1) I kept the firearms out of site and 2) I agreed to maintain them in a "broken down" condition, encased, with trigger locks. Additionally all ammunition needed to be stored out of site in a locked container. My ex didn't even know that I had a CPL at that time and my kids didn't know I had a pistol because, even though I OCd around them, they were too young to really explain that to their mother.

Later, of course they talked to their mom about it...positively, and I get a call from my attorney that my ex is planning to go to court over it. My attorney stated she received a call from my ex's attorney who, because he was sick of dealing with his client, instead called my attorney about the possible request to change parenting time and or custody. I decided then to only CC around them for a while. About 1.5 years ago I decided enough time had gone by and again OCd around my children. After doing so my daughter told me that she overheard my ex talking to an attorney on the phone saying that she wanted to take me to court over the loaded pistols to which my children were exposed... and her new husband was against going to court because they only had the statements from my children that I OCd and he didn't want them to have to testify "against" their dad. Knowing the MONTHS of grief, the expense, and the way I was grilled regarding my having a shotgun and a rifle on my premises despite them being secured to a level that far and above exceeds even the transportation requirements under state law, I now exclusively CC in her presence.

Hevymetal · Aug 11, 2013

Glock214 said:
I don't want to lose my firearm or my children. I'm so close to getting an interview for a deputy reserve position too. I can't lose things now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you did get hired for said position, would it not then be a "requirement" for proper execution of that position? Some departments REQUIRE their employees to be armed at all times. Also having the exemption box checked on your CPL is an added bonus, especially for school functions.

DrTodd · Aug 11, 2013

Glock214 said:
I think I need an attorney now DrTodd. Can you recommend a good one? This sounds like something my ex would do. I don't want to lose my firearm or my children. I'm so close to getting an interview for a deputy reserve position too. I can't lose things now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

PM sent...

Michigun · Aug 14, 2013

I have a friend who is a hunter and was getting a divorce. His ex decided to take out a personal protection order against him with some made up story about him threatening her with no proof at all, knowing that it would wreck that years hunting. He was banned from having any firearms in his possession. Needless to say, no rifle hunting that year. The PPO was dissolved when the divorce was final.

DrTodd · Aug 15, 2013

Michigun said:
I have a friend who is a hunter and was getting a divorce. His ex decided to take out a personal protection order against him with some made up story about him threatening her with no proof at all, knowing that it would wreck that years hunting. He was banned from having any firearms in his possession. Needless to say, no rifle hunting that year. The PPO was dissolved when the divorce was final.

Hmm, have I ever met you? Just kidding because this is close to what happened to me. The only difference was that my ex claimed I went on her property, no actual threats...which I admitted I did. However, this is what was agreed to in our written agreement in dropping off and picking up my children. According to our agreement, I was to pick up/drop off the children at her home. Despite this, the PPO was granted which effectively barred me from hunting for 2 years. The 6 month PPO was extended another 6 months because the judge said "I see no harm in extending it" despite the fact that there had never been any credible violation of the order since it was issued. At the third hearing for yet another extension, the judge decided that my ex's credibility had been shot because of repeated attempts at having me arrested for supposed violations of the order... all of which were untrue. In fact, it got to the point that when she called the sheriff's department to have them investigate, officers would just telephone me, tell me what she accused me of, ask me if it was true: then the "investigation" was dropped. It was a colossal waste of time on the part of the deputies and it ended up costing me a large amount of money in court costs and attorney fees to fight her charges. Luckily, I recorded every interaction that I had with her... which she also tried to present as evidence that I was harassing her. This was the beginning of the end of her charade...the judge said I was wise to record all communication and to have video of all the times I dropped off or picked up my children. I had family members accompany me and recorded her interaction with them and the judge was able to see that it was my ex who was hostile and dangerous to others. This also came up in my meeting with the CPL board, which almost cost me the license.

xmanhockey7 · Aug 17, 2013

DrTodd said:
Hmm, have I ever met you? Just kidding because this is close to what happened to me. The only difference was that my ex claimed I went on her property, no actual threats...which I admitted I did. However, this is what was agreed to in our written agreement in dropping off and picking up my children. According to our agreement, I was to pick up/drop off the children at her home. Despite this, the PPO was granted which effectively barred me from hunting for 2 years. The 6 month PPO was extended another 6 months because the judge said "I see no harm in extending it" despite the fact that there had never been any credible violation of the order since it was issued. At the third hearing for yet another extension, the judge decided that my ex's credibility had been shot because of repeated attempts at having me arrested for supposed violations of the order... all of which were untrue. In fact, it got to the point that when she called the sheriff's department to have them investigate, officers would just telephone me, tell me what she accused me of, ask me if it was true: then the "investigation" was dropped. It was a colossal waste of time on the part of the deputies and it ended up costing me a large amount of money in court costs and attorney fees to fight her charges. Luckily, I recorded every interaction that I had with her... which she also tried to present as evidence that I was harassing her. This was the beginning of the end of her charade...the judge said I was wise to record all communication and to have video of all the times I dropped off or picked up my children. I had family members accompany me and recorded her interaction with them and the judge was able to see that it was my ex who was hostile and dangerous to others. This also came up in my meeting with the CPL board, which almost cost me the license.

Wise man. After hearing that horror story you make me want to never want to get married and have kids. Glad to hear you were smart enough to record anything. I'm surprised she was never charged with anything like filing a false police report or something like that.

FreeInAZ · Aug 17, 2013

xmanhockey7 said:
Wise man. After hearing that horror story you make me want to never want to get married and have kids. Glad to hear you were smart enough to record anything. I'm surprised she was never charged with anything like filing a false police report or something like that.

Yup, also remember it is not just a lying ex that can jam one up. All it takes is one nut job to file a false claim against you for (fill in the blank). We as open carriers are easy targets for liars. Without a video / audio of any interaction, who do you think the police , judge & jury will believe - the guy with the gun or the 98lb soccer mom who says you drew down on here over a parking spot at the store? When its your word against theirs every edge helps. Being able to bring up a video of the bat crap crazy lady nearly smashing into in the parking lot then screaming at you and calling police once she sees your gun all while your hands are on a shopping cart calmly walking towards the store.....$$$PRICELESS. Without it, you're going to jail if things go south.

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