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Thread: Is it time to fine a new coffee place? Starbucks caves...

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Is it time to fine a new coffee place? Starbucks caves...

    It looks like the Newtown CT Starbucks closed early so a meetup there of OC folks wasn't able to happen. While I support their right to make that decision, I'll be vocalizing my right to spend future money on coffee at a different location.

    http://www.courant.com/news/connecti...,7313792.story

    A notice had been taped to the front door: "Out of respect for Newtown and everything our community has been through,we have decided to close our store early today.

    "Starbucks did not endorse today's event. We continue to encourage customers and advocacy groups from all sides of this debate to contact their elected officials, who make the laws our company follows. We recognize there is significant passion surrounding this topic, however we believe people should be sensitive to our community."

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    I emailed them through their website - please take a moment to do the same.

    Like to their contact page: http://customerservice.starbucks.com..._company_info/

    I just read about the Newtown CT Starbucks closing early so that a group of 2nd Amendment Supporters could not meet and drink some of the fine coffee brewed at your stores. It was extremely disappointing to read this.

    I would like to know if this store was following company policy and if the policies for other stores will change in the future regarding firearms if it is deemed insensitive by groups that do not recognize state and federal laws.

    My wife and I patronize your Stevens Point, WI store at least a three times a week. We respect the right of businesses to set their own policies - however we do not patronize businesses that do not recognize the 2nd Amendment.

    I hope that this incident in Newtown will be corrected by your corporate officers and we will be able to continue to enjoy your coffees. I look forward to a response.

    Thank you,

    Anmut & Wife
    Stevens Point WI

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    I'm betting it was a rogue manager.

    Going against corporate policy, and eschewing profits, for a personal agenda, doesn't bode too well with large corporations.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I think starbucks actions were perfectly appropriate.

    That location should never have been chosen..... I would close my business too in such an event. This is hardly caving, this is some malcontents whining that a business didn't want to be caught in the middle of giant protests
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 08-10-2013 at 02:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I think starbucks actions were perfectly appropriate.

    That location should never have been chosen..... I would close my business too in such an event. This is hardly caving, this is some malcontents whining that a business didn't want to be caught in the middle of giant protests
    I would disagree .. when can OCers meet in a Newtown coffee shop to say thanks then ? In your opinion.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would disagree .. when can OCers meet in a Newtown coffee shop to say thanks then ? In your opinion.
    Possibly never, but that's the price you sometimes have to pay for good public relations. And there's the issue of the long term profitability of that Starbucks location or business. A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving, that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Possibly never, but that's the price you sometimes have to pay for good public relations. And there's the issue of the long term profitability of that Starbucks location or business. A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving, that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control...
    There was no "in your face negativity" motive. Your viewpoint, if shared by the majority of gun owners, does not bode well for our gun rights. If gun owners will not step up and let people know that their rights cannot be diminished under any circumstances then our rights are already lost. After all, if we do not step up, nobody will do it for us.

    9 months is much more than enough time .. your statement of "never" is impossible to reconcile with the 2nd and 9th amendments.

    And the citizens of CT did not lay down and say "ooh, all those children - you can take away our guns. No, most people said NO do not take away our gun rights...the record is clear on that." The democrats used the killings for political motive ... got what they wanted (at least for a very short time) and exposed them for what they are for all to see. I myself, during this year's legislative session did not apologize for the killings-I had nothing to do with them and had nothing to apologize for, and I still don't. Just think of the families who not only had their kids taken away but also their ability to protect their other kids? They would have welcomed the people who showed up today at Starbucks...all law abiding armed citizens likely willing to take on such a killer. Yea, lets trash on them - its too easy.

    I suggest you reconsider your position....



    Just MO.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Possibly never, but that's the price you sometimes have to pay for good public relations. And there's the issue of the long term profitability of that Starbucks location or business. A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving, that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control...
    Just like the gay pride parades and ish caused businesses to not serve gays, right?
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I think starbucks actions were perfectly appropriate.

    That location should never have been chosen..... I would close my business too in such an event. This is hardly caving, this is some malcontents whining that a business didn't want to be caught in the middle of giant protests
    For once I agree with EMN.

    When Starbucks decided to "take our side", they specifically asked not to be placed in the middle of this. The specifically said they were going to follow state law as a neutral decision, and their focus is selling coffee.

    So, a bunch of geniuses decide to "thank" them for their "support" by staging "Starbucks Appreciation Days" (brings new meaning to the word "misguided").

    I mean, wtf is that? I'd close too, just on the principle of it: "I asked you, when I took your side, to leave me out of it, and you couldn't even get over yourselves long enough to do that."

    I love OC and the RKBA, but sometimes we really need to get over ourselves.
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-10-2013 at 11:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    and their focus is selling coffee.

    .
    Then sell freaking coffee....

    What, every time we want to out for a meet, a business will simply close down?

    IMO they did not want to serve OCers. Otherwise they would have remained open and did their business.

    I lived in Chicago when they wanted to ban handguns ... and I told mothers who lost their children that their loss is no grounds to outlaw handguns , right to their face. They called me a monster and all types of names. I'll not let commie mommies dictate my rights. You should not either.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Then sell freaking coffee....

    What, every time we want to out for a meet, a business will simply close down?

    IMO they did not want to serve OCers. Otherwise they would have remained open and did their business.

    I lived in Chicago when they wanted to ban handguns ... and I told mothers who lost their children that their loss is no grounds to outlaw handguns , right to their face. They called me a monster and all types of names. I'll not let commie mommies dictate my rights. You should not either.
    There are plenty of Starbucks which welcome OC meets.

    The planned one in Newton was in poor judgment, and it put Starbucks right back in the middle of something they asked to be left out of.

    The OCers put their cute little meet ahead of the request of the owner of the property they wished to have their little meet on, and the property owner put them in their place. Good for him.

    Frankly, anyone who has a meet in Starbucks for any reason other than convenience or coffee is a self-absorbed ass. I OC in Starbucks all the time, but you'll never catch me at "Starbucks appreciation days". My buying the occasional coffee is plenty of appreciation, and it doesn't go against their express wishes to boot.
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-10-2013 at 04:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    There are plenty of Starbucks which welcome OC meets.

    The planned one in Newton was in poor judgment, and it put Starbucks right back in the middle of something they asked to be left out of.

    Frankly, the OCers put their cute little meet ahead of the request of the property owner they wished to have their little meet on, and the property owner put them in their place. Good for him.

    Frankly, anyone who has a meet in Starbucks for any reason other than convenience or coffee is a self-absorbed ass. I OC in Starbucks all the time, but you'll never catch me at "Starbucks appreciation days". My buying the occasional coffee is plenty of appreciation, and it doesn't go against their express wishes to boot.
    Well, the company sure showed it colors .. they are anti. "self absorbed ass" or "supporter and defendor of our 2nd amendment rights" ... depends on viewpoint.

    I myself was not able to attend - I was busy writing a declaratory ruling request to our DMV concerning emission waivers and how the DMV was not following our law (CGS Sec 14-164c) and costing people millions of dollars. And cleaning and oiling my guns (of course!).

    Blah blah blah, company's rights ... if they don't care about mine, why should I care about theirs?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Blah blah blah, company's rights ... if they don't care about mine, why should I care about theirs?
    How puerile.

    Starbucks is a business. They don't exists to fight for your rights. They also don't exist to fight against your rights (nor do they).

    They aren't refusing service to OCers; they merely don't wish to play host to our little publicity stunts. And they asked us in advance to not do that anyway. Starbucks made it pretty clear they welcome armed individuals who just want to buy coffee. They also made it equally clear they don't want either side using them to prove a point. Which is their right – and it doesn't infringe yours in the slightest. You're the one who seems to care about nobody's rights but your own.
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-10-2013 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    . You're the one who seems to care about nobody's rights but your own.
    Nobody else will protect my rights other than me ... so you are correct .. I am my own advocate.

    And you are not an advocate for your rights? I assume that you are as you post here.

    Sad to see someone who supports RKBA now trashing on others ...

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sad to see someone who supports RKBA now trashing on others ...
    Make no mistake, I support RKBA, but I don't support using Starbucks to make a point, against their express wishes.

    There are plenty of meets which occur in Starbucks that don't constitute this ("Hey, you guys wanna meet up for some coffee?"). The planned one in Newtown definitely did ("alright, I know, let's stage a meet in Starbucks, in Newtown, on 'Starbucks appreciation day!'").

    Like I said, if the goal was really to show appreciation to Starbucks, you could just buy some coffee. It doesn't have to be newsworthy.

    http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-10-2013 at 04:09 PM.

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    Marshaul,

    No one had any agenda items to cover .. simply a meet & greet & show thanks to Starbucks ...

    Questions for you to ponder:

    1) Would they have closed if it was an anti-gunners meet and greet?

    2) Did they discriminate against RKBA-ers?

    3) Was the discrimination unlawful?

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    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
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    I think this is an effort to control PR. They did say they wanted to stay out of it and would follow state law. It publicly is better for them not to take a side and with the way these get togethers are billed it makes it look like Starbucks is backing it 100%. They asked to stay out of it they want to close to avoid bad press from gun grabbers then its their right. They are keeping politics separate from their business.

    If you want to carry there they are fine with it. They just don't want a rally about how they as a business are supporting one opinion over another.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCinMaine View Post
    I think this is an effort to control PR. They did say they wanted to stay out of it and would follow state law. It publicly is better for them not to take a side and with the way these get togethers are billed it makes it look like Starbucks is backing it 100%. They asked to stay out of it they want to close to avoid bad press from gun grabbers then its their right. They are keeping politics separate from their business.

    If you want to carry there they are fine with it. They just don't want a rally about how they as a business are supporting one opinion over another.
    Exactly!
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-10-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, the company sure showed it colors .. they are anti.
    Yes, they're "anti": they're anti-"two loud national vocal groups fighting out their differences on our property to the detriment of our business".

    I don't blame them one bit. The easy PR route would have been to cave to the anti-gunners in the first place, and ban guns. They didn't do that. We're still welcome in every Starbucks store.

    If it was Westboro Baptist and the Patriot Guard Riders squaring off and picking Starbucks as their venue to gain attention, I would expect them to close on that day, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Exactly!
    You must beyond the moment -- is our right to KBA a civil right? I think so ... so that businesses cannot exclude one that would violate the civil right of another.


    This is the next level .... beyond tomorrow ... but arguments must be made now to get this out and for people to discuss.

    Plus they are a business and they invite the public to their establishment ~ they don't want all people, close the business down.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-11-2013 at 01:13 PM.

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Possibly never, but that's the price you sometimes have to pay for good public relations. And there's the issue of the long term profitability of that Starbucks location or business. A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving, that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control...
    Yes, the time to go TOTING GUNS is now. It is always now, and had teachers been TOTING GUNS in that school the outcome would have been different. Put down the political correctness bong.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ......that's the price you sometimes have to pay for good public relations. ( NO)
    A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving (YES)
    that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control...
    (NO)

    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    Yes, the time to go TOTING GUNS is now. It is always now, ........... Put down the political correctness bong.
    Someone in chicago was shot the day after newtown. Again a week later. Life goes on. Get over it and live your own life, not vicariously thru a victims eyes.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle
    That location should never have been chosen.
    It wasn't just that location, it was supposed to be nationwide.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle
    A year hasn't even passed and you seem to think that it's time to go toting guns when families are still grieving, that's the type of in your face negativity that will eventually lead to further gun control.
    If school staff had been allowed to "tote guns" (generally an anti-gunner term), it's likely that there would have been nobody but the psycho dead at the school.
    How long should people wait to exercise their rights after some psycho points out the weaknesses in the current method required to exercise those rights?
    Why should my rights depend on anyone else's use of their rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul
    a bunch of geniuses decide to "thank" them for their "support" by staging "Starbucks Appreciation Days"
    Which is different from any other meet-n-greet how?
    Or any other group of friends spending too much money there?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul
    anyone who has a meet in Starbucks for any reason other than convenience or coffee is a self-absorbed ass.
    Then I'm a self-absorbed ass.
    I wouldn't normally spend that much for lemonaide or iced tea, and if I did I'd usually go to my locally-owned coffee shop. But I generally attend monthly meet-n-greets at SBX to meet friends and support a business which likes having us there.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul
    if the goal was really to show appreciation to Starbucks, you could just buy some coffee. It doesn't have to be newsworthy.
    Who made it so? Probably the anti's. The pro-rights people spread word amongst ourselves and I'm pretty sure that the MSM wouldn't have paid us any attention even if they'd been alerted. They rarely do.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 08-12-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    -- is our right to KBA a civil right? I think so ...
    Surely you jest ... ?!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I wouldn't normally spend that much for lemonaide or iced tea, and if I did I'd usually go to my locally-owned coffee shop. But I generally attend monthly meet-n-greets at SBX to meet friends as support a business which likes having us there.
    Key words.

    Starbucks made it clear they welcome OCers but not being in the middle of the debate. This particular meet was specifically intended to generate publicity.

    This isn't rocket science.

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