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Thread: Naming your child is a privilege that can be regulated.......

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Naming your child is a privilege that can be regulated.......

    Judge orders mother to change baby's name.

    http://www.wbir.com/news/article/284...r-Baby-Messiah

    Is naming your child a privilege that can be "regulated"?

    Judge's argument about the word "messiah" is specious too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Actually in Kalifornia (sic) it is. CA courts have said (ruling against homeschooling) that parents look after children on behalf of the state. Children are in essence leased by parents. Welcome to the Land O' the Free!
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Actually in Kalifornia (sic) it is. CA courts have said (ruling against homeschooling) that parents look after children on behalf of the state. Children are in essence leased by parents. Welcome to the Land O' the Free!
    Sad....and this is a good point you brought up.

    The states have mandated an 18 yr. lease, (in special cases up to 26) at which point full ownership is resumed by the state. This viewpoint alludes that we are not free, but nothing more than human components in their machine.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    The kid can always change their name back if he wishes once he turns 18.

    The concerning part is a government entity getting involved in religion in this specific case. Who's he to say who earned a title?

    A name is what a person believes in him/herself, personally I'm not called any of the names my birth parents gave me. I will say this, the courts have also declared they can regulate what you want to change your name to for legal purposes. Boomer the Dog is a good example.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...he-dog-258970/
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Also if you name your child Adolf, wear Nazi uniforms and spew hate you can lose custody of all your children.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26...says-no-abuse/
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    The kid can always change their name back if he wishes once he turns 18.

    The concerning part is a government entity getting involved in religion in this specific case. Who's he to say who earned a title?

    A name is what a person believes in him/herself, personally I'm not called any of the names my birth parents gave me. I will say this, the courts have also declared they can regulate what you want to change your name to for legal purposes. Boomer the Dog is a good example.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...he-dog-258970/
    Oh Gods, as soon as I saw the link name, I did a major face-paw, and knew it'd be about Furries.

    That case is one of the reasons why we cannot have nice things. D:<
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    Just have the BC say:

    First name: first name, whatever

    Second name: any judge who reads this is a doo doo head

    Third name: whatever


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    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    Naming your child is a privilege that can be regulated.......

    This is rather funny cause my friend changed his name to "hazard579" don't know why but that's his legal name now


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    NBA star Ron Artest changed his name to Metta World Peace

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metta_World_Peace
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Near as I can tell, the word messiah (modern spelling) meant a certain kind of leader. The term The Messiah meant/means a very particular leader.

    From what I can see, some uppity, arrogant Christians think they can co-opt a word that wasn't even theirs to begin with, and now deny others using it.

    They don't even deserve sensitivity to their religious concerns on this one. Just laff in their faces.

    Or, ask them if they really like comparing favorably to Muslims who criminalize disrespect toward their prophet. Can't be too many more years before this brand of Christians starts asking for laws forbidding disrespect toward their Messiah.

    For pete's sake, are they gonna start forbidding Hispanics naming their boys Jesus? Even Muslims name their kids Mohammed.

    What an ugly blotch on the hope and good of all religions. I think we can safely say this particular judge badly needs more religion himself.

    Heh, heh, heh. I wonder how he would reply if asked, "What would Jesus do?"
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The judge is a woman not a man.
    From a news article.
    Child Support Magistrate Lu Ann Ballew serves the 4th Judicial District of Tenn. including the following counties: Cocke, Grainger, Jefferson, and Sevier.
    Link to the article.
    http://www.wbir.com/news/article/283...d-from-Messiah
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Near as I can tell, the word messiah (modern spelling) meant a certain kind of leader. The term The Messiah meant/means a very particular leader.

    From what I can see, some uppity, arrogant Christians think they can co-opt a word that wasn't even theirs to begin with, and now deny others using it.

    They don't even deserve sensitivity to their religious concerns on this one. Just laff in their faces.

    Or, ask them if they really like comparing favorably to Muslims who criminalize disrespect toward their prophet. Can't be too many more years before this brand of Christians starts asking for laws forbidding disrespect toward their Messiah.

    For pete's sake, are they gonna start forbidding Hispanics naming their boys Jesus? Even Muslims name their kids Mohammed.

    What an ugly blotch on the hope and good of all religions. I think we can safely say this particular judge badly needs more religion himself.

    Heh, heh, heh. I wonder how he would reply if asked, "What would Jesus do?"
    How many Muslim boys are named Mohammed (sp??)?

    Germany has a law against naming a kid Adolph. Can't figure out why.

    Norway, or Finland, has some very strict laws on the naming of kids - as names describe familial relationship and they are unwilling to change the culture to accommodate the desire of some Scandahoovian hippy parents.

    Several Asian countries have laws prohibiting certain names because of the negative social/cultural issues that would result.

    Racist prejudicial alert! There ought to be a law (or several laws) against allowing certain segments of US society from giving their children some of the names they have been saddled with. Going through life as Baby Doe #1 would probably be better than having to live with some of the horrors parents do to their kids.

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    How many Muslim boys are named Mohammed (sp??)?
    Millions.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    All of those aforementioned countries do not recognize individual rights. In this country the state is prohibited from interfering because it is not an enumerated power for the courts to bless, or condemn, the names given to babies by their parents, even when the baby is named Adolf. Anyone who agrees with the courts decision is anti-liberty and anti-citizen.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    All of those aforementioned countries do not recognize individual rights. In this country the state is prohibited from interfering because it is not an enumerated power for the courts to bless, or condemn, the names given to babies by their parents, even when the baby is named Adolf. Anyone who agrees with the courts decision is anti-liberty and anti-citizen.
    Then let's go back to Muslim boys being named Mohammed. Stipulate that roughly 5% (a lowball figure) of all men are retards, *******, jerks, and general [expletive deleted]-ups. Stipulate that somewhat more than 5% of Muslim boys are named Mohanmed. That should give us minimally 0.25% of Muslim boys who show disrespect to The Prophet by their mere existence. Further stipulate that Sharia law does not recognize individual rights - and especially so when it comes to showing disrespect to The Prophet.

    Question - why are we not seeing a reduction, if not a discontinuing, of giving Muslim boys the name Mohammed as a prophylactic against showing disrespect to The Prophet?

    stay safe.

    (I know - expecting both consistency and logic from the Musim religion is an unfair tactic.)
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Then let's go back to Muslim boys being named Mohammed. Stipulate that roughly 5% (a lowball figure) of all men are retards, *******, jerks, and general [expletive deleted]-ups. Stipulate that somewhat more than 5% of Muslim boys are named Mohanmed. That should give us minimally 0.25% of Muslim boys who show disrespect to The Prophet by their mere existence. Further stipulate that Sharia law does not recognize individual rights - and especially so when it comes to showing disrespect to The Prophet.

    Question - why are we not seeing a reduction, if not a discontinuing, of giving Muslim boys the name Mohammed as a prophylactic against showing disrespect to The Prophet?

    stay safe.

    (I know - expecting both consistency and logic from the Musim religion is an unfair tactic.)
    Your apple, my orange. Mohammad, peace be upon him, is a name. Messiah is a title, the judge said so. If the kid would have been named Jesus, and not pronounced hey-zeus, then nobody would have likely complained, not even that nitwit judge.

    The judge's justification is dead wrong. It is anti-liberty, to the inth degree, to even think that the government entering into the "baby name good or bad" business is even worthy of discussion.

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    Regular Member Black_water's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Near as I can tell, the word messiah (modern spelling) meant a certain kind of leader. The term The Messiah meant/means a very particular leader.

    From what I can see, some uppity, arrogant Christians think they can co-opt a word that wasn't even theirs to begin with, and now deny others using it.

    They don't even deserve sensitivity to their religious concerns on this one. Just laff in their faces.

    Or, ask them if they really like comparing favorably to Muslims who criminalize disrespect toward their prophet. Can't be too many more years before this brand of Christians starts asking for laws forbidding disrespect toward their Messiah.

    For pete's sake, are they gonna start forbidding Hispanics naming their boys Jesus? Even Muslims name their kids Mohammed.

    What an ugly blotch on the hope and good of all religions. I think we can safely say this particular judge badly needs more religion himself.

    Heh, heh, heh. I wonder how he would reply if asked, "What would Jesus do?"
    You about summed up my feelings, save for the uppity Christian bit. This is a decision by a single person, not a community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Your apple, my orange. Mohammad, peace be upon him, is a name. Messiah is a title, the judge said so. If the kid would have been named Jesus, and not pronounced hey-zeus, then nobody would have likely complained, not even that nitwit judge.

    The judge's justification is dead wrong. It is anti-liberty, to the inth degree, to even think that the government entering into the "baby name good or bad" business is even worthy of discussion.
    Messiah was word. Christians made it a title. I'm not an expert in this area, but I don't think even the Jews, who were looking for a messiah (Jewish word, modern spelling) called Him the Messiah.

    Lots of surnames in English come from a human trade or function--Baker, Cooper, Cartwright, Carpenter, Doorman, Fisher...etc, etc., etc.

    Christians can't co-opt a word and then deny other's the use.


    Of course, all that is totally beside the fact that government has no authority to deny parents a name.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-13-2013 at 03:59 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Messiah was word. Christians made it a title. I'm not an expert in this area, but I don't think even the Jews, who were looking for a messiah (Jewish word, modern spelling) called Him the Messiah.

    Lots of surnames in English come from a human trade or function--Baker, Cooper, Cartwright, Carpenter, Doorman, Fisher...etc, etc., etc.

    Christians can't co-opt a word and then deny other's the use.


    Of course, all that is totally beside the fact that government has no authority to deny parents a name.
    Nor any authority over family affairs at all. The camel's nose,head and body is in the tent. Aint no getting it out now.

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    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    And Kartrashian naming her baby North West is just fine with America.

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    hey, middle name: I'm going to kill you

    Then whenever you threaten someone, you can just say "hey, I was just telling u my middle name" ...

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    I wonder what her honor's response would have been if it were a Latino couple naming their son Jesus (of which there are quite a few examples)?

    I agree with those who've said that the government (well, the U.S. government) has no right to do this.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Messiah was word. Christians made it a title. I'm not an expert in this area, but I don't think even the Jews, who were looking for a messiah (Jewish word, modern spelling) called Him the Messiah.

    Lots of surnames in English come from a human trade or function--Baker, Cooper, Cartwright, Carpenter, Doorman, Fisher...etc, etc., etc.

    Christians can't co-opt a word and then deny other's the use.


    Of course, all that is totally beside the fact that government has no authority to deny parents a name.
    Yep, there were many Messiahs, this judge's ruling as shown by some of the news clips shows it is a total religious bias, when she claims there was only one to have that title and it was Jesus Christ, which made me laugh because christ is the English translation of the Greek translation of the Hebrew word for messiah.

    Side note there were several messiahs, from what I can remember from my studies in Hebrew history, and there were also other Jesus's.

    I was also hoping to hear from those who say we are granted "privileges" and how they would argue for or against this one.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yep, there were many Messiahs, this judge's ruling as shown by some of the news clips shows it is a total religious bias, when she claims there was only one to have that title and it was Jesus Christ, which made me laugh because christ is the English translation of the Greek translation of the Hebrew word for messiah.

    Side note there were several messiahs, from what I can remember from my studies in Hebrew history, and there were also other Jesus's.

    I was also hoping to hear from those who say we are granted "privileges" and how they would argue for or against this one.
    I guess there are two issues here.

    1. A judge is basing a ruling on religious bias

    2. Children either belong to their parents or the state. Cant be both and it cant be neither.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I guess there are two issues here.

    1. A judge is basing a ruling on religious bias

    2. Children either belong to their parents or the state. Cant be both and it cant be neither.
    I don't think children belong to their parents. My belief is that it is a parents responsibility to raise their progeny.

    It does seem to be the state arguing they belong to them, of course the state believes we all belong to it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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