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Thread: FWP - National Bison Range - No Firearm Signs

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    FWP - National Bison Range - No Firearm Signs

    I visited the National Bison Range, a division of the National Wildlife Refuge System, yesterday OC. The whole place was scattered with No Firearm signs, including a dedicated large font sign at the entrance of the refuge. Pursuant to the Credit Card Act of 2009 Section 512, I have contacted the refuge to have the signs in violation removed.

    Interestingly, the National Bison Range website is updated with accurate data. Even a picture of a sign that they blocked out the No Firearms item, in fact an exact sign that I took a picture of that still has it listed.



    Ill keep everyone posted on my progress.
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    Regular Member BigDeeeeeeee's Avatar
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    This FWS website still says "Firearms are prohibited" too.

    http://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/index.htm

    But this must be the one you mention.

    http://www.fws.gov/refuge/National_B...gulations.html
    Last edited by BigDeeeeeeee; 08-12-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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    Nice pic ... find any buffalo ?

    It will take them 30 yrs to fix it ... you should ask if they mind if you fix the sign as you see them

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Nice pic ... find any buffalo ?

    It will take them 30 yrs to fix it ... you should ask if they mind if you fix the sign as you see them
    Depending on how they respond I will offer to cover the offending signs with tape. I would rather they do it though.

    A couple pictures from the trip:

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    The credit card reform act applied to National Park Service property. Does it apply to Fish and Wildlife Service properties?

    National Wildlife Refuges are FWS property, not NPS.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    The credit card reform act applied to National Park Service property. Does it apply to Fish and Wildlife Service properties?

    National Wildlife Refuges are FWS property, not NPS.
    Yes it applies, please see Section 512 of the act. Below is an link to the text.

    Credit Card act of 2009, Section 512. [img]
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDeeeeeeee View Post
    This FWS website still says "Firearms are prohibited" too.

    http://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/index.htm

    But this must be the one you mention.

    http://www.fws.gov/refuge/National_B...gulations.html
    Correct, here is the photo and text they have posted online. I don't know why they have 2 websites. Ill call out the improper restriction listed on the first site you mentioned in a follow up once I receive a reply.


    Firearms
    Persons possessing, transporting, or carrying firearms on National Wildlife Refuge System lands must comply with all provisions of State and local law. Persons may only use (discharge) firearms in accordance with refuge regulations (50 CFR 27.42). Hunting is not allowed on the National Bison Range. Weapons of any kind are not allowed in federal buildings, which include the Visitor Center.
    You can clearly see the sign was modified on a computer. They failed to actually update the signs on location though, they knew they were supposed to obviously and didn't. Probably never had anyone complain.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 08-12-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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    Decent pics ... this a phone camera? The big one was eyeballing you lol

    thx for the pics !
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-12-2013 at 08:12 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Decent pics ... this a phone camera? The big one was eyeballing you lol

    thx for the pics !
    Yes a camera phone, these are actually down sized and compressed versions for the internet. The big buffalo actually growled at us for a bit, he sat in the road for about 5 min.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    slapmonkey - did you happen to speak with anyone there about the firearms ?

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Update! - Response

    I received via USPS a response from the Bison Range. The concerns I outlined in my email to them have been resolved, I will take a trip in a week or two and verify.

    Read the email and response here: http://sdrv.ms/12FmA3l (Skydrive pdf)
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 08-26-2013 at 05:56 PM.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member BigDeeeeeeee's Avatar
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    Well done!
    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    I received via USPS a response from the Bison Range. The concerns I outlined in my email to them have been resolved, I will take a trip in a week or two and verify.

    Read the email and response here: http://sdrv.ms/12FmA3l (Skydrive pdf)
    You get a great attaboy for the outdoor signs, but a big "Aw crap!" for pointing out and having them correct the 18 USC 930 signs.

    As you know, that law doesn't apply unless notice is conspicuously posted. You just removed the defense from anyone who might have carried inside without proper notice that it was banned.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    You get a great attaboy for the outdoor signs, but a big "Aw crap!" for pointing out and having them correct the 18 USC 930 signs.

    As you know, that law doesn't apply unless notice is conspicuously posted. You just removed the defense from anyone who might have carried inside without proper notice that it was banned.
    I would rather prevent someone from being entrapped and having to deal with criminal federal charges. The door was in fact posted, however done so behind tint and a couple feet from the bottom of the door (so not eye level). It was hard to see, even when looking.

    Now... if there were no signs at all I would have figured they determined it not to be a federal facility or did not care to restrict firearms. I would not have mentioned anything in this scenario.

    It is a federal facility and it is the law, no harm in pointing out the issue in my opinion. It could save issue on both sides.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 08-27-2013 at 12:03 AM.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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