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Thread: Instructor accidentally shoots one of his students.

  1. #1
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    Instructor accidentally shoots one of his students.

    http://bit.ly/19ZLcIt

    Dontcha just love "experts"?

    This ranks up there with the federal cop who shot himself in the leg shortly after announcing that he was the only person in the room trained well enough to carry.


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    Thanks NOT for the blind link URL

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...-shooting.html

    LANCASTER, Ohio — A gun-safety class in Fairfield County for people seeking permits to carry concealed weapons went wrong on Saturday when the instructor accidentally shot a student.

    Terry J. Dunlap Sr., who runs a shooting range and training center at 6995 Coonpath Rd. near Lancaster, was demonstrating a hand gun in the classroom when he fired a .38-caliber bullet that ricocheted off a desk and into student Michael Piemonte’s right arm.

    Dunlap, 73, also is a long-time Violet Township trustee who is running for re-election in November.
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    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    Instructor accidentally shoots one of his students.

    And here class is an example of improperly clearing a weapon before I use it in a demo.. Anyone want to volunteer to be hit by a bullet? You sir in the fronts seat?


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Dontcha just love "experts"?
    As an experienced expert, one must remember the expert advice, that stems from expert experience, to expertly clear the firearm of any ammunition to avoid an experience such as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    This ranks up there with the federal cop who shot himself in the leg shortly after announcing that he was the only person in the room trained well enough to carry.
    Does it speak ill of me if after reading the title, and this bit, I immediately thought of James Yeager?

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Today's gun safety lesson

    Always treat a gun as though it's loaded, this is why, BANG!
    "OUCH I've been shot!"

    Any questions?

    "Yes, will you be charged with a crime for doing that?"

    "No, he was a volunteer."
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    I think that "accident" is the wrong term. I think I'll choose negligent and thus should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Did the victim get his money back, or a summary "you passed the course."

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    At Matt, I would not teach clearing in a first gun safety class. Maybe a home assignment to be demonstrated with a subsequent safe direction exercise. But NOT on the first day/class meeting.

    In my first class, we were not allowed student guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    At Matt, I would not teach clearing in a first gun safety class. Maybe a home assignment to be demonstrated with a subsequent safe direction exercise. But NOT on the first day/class meeting.

    In my first class, we were not allowed student guns.
    What did you do the very first class besides paper work and how long was it.
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post



    Does it speak ill of me if after reading the title, and this bit, I immediately thought of James Yeager?
    He speaks of Lee Paige. Patron saint of "only ones" i.e, those who believe a government issued costume or some other credential entitles only them to own and carry firearms.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Did the student get a refund?
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    He speaks of Lee Paige. Patron saint of "only ones" i.e, those who believe a government issued costume or some other credential entitles only them to own and carry firearms.
    Yes, I've seen the video (how long did it take to go viral?) and heard about him suing (because of the video, I mean). Not sure what came of it, but a quick search reveals that the case did not go in his favor, except for the court to say the DEA could have handled the case differently?
    I just thought of Yeager because I almost "want" to see him do something with this much publicity. I think we are all aware about how he feels towards OCers (see the YouTube video "Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry"). That's why I asked if it spoke ill of me.
    On topic, I agree that the instructor in question should be charged. If it was intentional, we know what he could be charged with, and if it was a negligent discharge, well he still would get charged for it.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 08-13-2013 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Clarification

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    whats with all the talk about charging the guy. if the guy shot does not care then that should be the end of it, as far as the criminal aspect.

    cheney never got charged, remember?

    just another day at the office

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Thanks NOT for the blind link URL
    Seriously, what happened to the "FUQ"?

    Is eye too busy making up new acronyms to remember his old ones?

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    Instructor accidentally shoots one of his students.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It was not a blind link. The thread title announces the it was about an instructor accidentally shooting one of his students. Furthermore, I compared this story to the one where the federal agent shot himself in the leg while conducting a class.

    The introduction may not have been to your liking, but it is there, and it is clear.

    Moving on to discuss the actual topic.


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    If we had charge of being stupid.

    I see a lot of people following big government that every thing should be a crime.

    Negligent yes criminal no just because some one makes a mistake doesn't mean it should be a crime.

    Talk about eating our own.
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  16. #16
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    Negligence, where the discharge of a firearm is concerned, in a building where people may assemble, and no one is injured is a criminal offense in Missouri (RSMo 571.030 - Unlawful use of weapon; 565.060 - Assault, Second degree). Prosecution is a different issue. Other states may consider a negligent discharge where a injury occurs not to be a criminal offense. The "instructor" should be permanently disbarred from any further training events, as a business, at a minimum.

    No excuses, no second chances, Mr. Dunlap is lucky that Mr. Piemonte does not seem to have filed any charges for what is reported to be a minor injury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Negligence, where the discharge of a firearm is concerned, in a building where people may assemble, and no one is injured is a criminal offense in Missouri (RSMo 571.030 - Unlawful use of weapon; 565.060 - Assault, Second degree). Prosecution is a different issue. Other states may consider a negligent discharge where a injury occurs not to be a criminal offense. The "instructor" should be permanently disbarred from any further training events, as a business, at a minimum.

    No excuses, no second chances, Mr. Dunlap is lucky that Mr. Piemonte does not seem to have filed any charges for what is reported to be a minor injury.

    Actual wording 571.030


    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

    (2) Sets a spring gun; or

    (3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or


    Check for updates

    565.060. 1. A person commits the crime of assault in the second degree if he:

    (1) Attempts to kill or knowingly causes or attempts to cause serious physical injury to another person under the influence of sudden passion arising out of adequate cause; or

    (2) Attempts to cause or knowingly causes physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument; or

    (3) Recklessly causes serious physical injury to another person; or

    (4) While in an intoxicated condition or under the influence of controlled substances or drugs, operates a motor vehicle in this state and, when so operating, acts with criminal negligence to cause physical injury to any other person than himself; or

    (5) Recklessly causes physical injury to another person by means of discharge of a firearm; or


    Seems to me knowingly and recklessly comes into play here to be found in violation knowingly and recklessly would have to be proven
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 08-13-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Thus my insertion of "prosecution is a different issue." Negligence and accident, while typically used interchangeably, are not the same. Mr. Dunlap was negligent and it was no accident that that firearm was loaded. Pre-training preparation is critical and Mr. Dunlap failed miserably in this regard. People do make mistakes, but this is one area where a self described expert must not make "that" mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ... this is one area where a self described expert ...
    +1 And they are legion.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    +1 And they are legion.

    Along with internet commandos.
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  21. #21
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    Accidental shooting was not first for firearms instructor

    More information and a photo of the "instructor."
    Cathy Schmelzer couldn’t believe it when she read in the newspaper that Terry J. Dunlap Sr. — a firearms instructor — had accidentally shot someone.

    “Oh no, he’s done it again!” she said she thought to herself. Schmelzer, 50, was Cathy Hessler, a 14-year-old Pickerington girl, when she was accidentally shot in 1977 by Dunlap during a Halloween hayride.


    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...nstructor.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    More information and a photo of the "instructor."
    "Dunlap said he had fired his .38-caliber handgun into the air ... But a bullet ricocheted and hit Cathy Hessler in her right leg. Dunlap said he thought the gun was loaded with blanks."

    Interesting. Another one of those deadly air-shots, this one ricochetting too, and still missing the infinity of harmless targets to hit a human.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, my CHL instructor only used "training pistols" in class that could not actually fire a round, and still safety checked it so that the class could see. Not sure why you'd really ever need anything different for a class that's really just to humor the government so they "let you" carry your gun with you.

    Question - does the guy being hit in the arm and the injury being reported as "minor" say anything about carrying a .380? just kidding. I'm sure it would have hurt a lot worse if it wasn't a ricochet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    ... carrying a .380?
    Where'd .380 come from, don't both articles suggest that Dunlap misuses a .38?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It seems that a the round may be be removed and thus no longer qualifies in my book as a "minor injury." That nitwit Dunlap needs to spend some time in the cooler. His state certification(s) revoked. And a boycott of his business to be initiated.

    The only positive to be gleaned from Dunlap's latest incident is that he is unlikely to be around 36 years from now when he will be due to shoot some other innocent citizen.

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