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Thread: The surprising ages of the Founding Fathers on July 4, 1776 H/T Orin Kerr, Volokh.co

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    The surprising ages of the Founding Fathers on July 4, 1776 H/T Orin Kerr, Volokh.co

    Many of them were surprisingly young:

    • Marquis de Lafayette, 18
    • James Monroe, 18
    • Gilbert Stuart, 20
    • Aaron Burr, 20
    • Alexander Hamilton, 21
    • Betsy Ross, 24
    • James Madison, 25
    • Thomas Jefferson, 33
    • John Adams, 40
    • Paul Revere, 41
    • George Washington, 44
    • Samuel Adams, 53
    • Benjamin Franklin, 70


    http://kottke.org/13/08/the-surprisi...on-july-4-1776

    http://allthingsliberty.com/2013/08/...-how-old-1776/
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    Ben Franklin's autobiography was very interesting. If I remember, he was governor/president of Pennsylvania at one point.

    I immensely enjoyed the biography of T. Jefferson, too. My copy had some photos. One is a rough draft of the Declaration of Independence. In Thomas Jefferson's handwritting. With suggested edits by Ben Franklin!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Many of them were surprisingly young:

    • Marquis de Lafayette, 18
    • James Monroe, 18
    • Gilbert Stuart, 20
    • Aaron Burr, 20
    • Alexander Hamilton, 21
    • Betsy Ross, 24
    • James Madison, 25
    • Thomas Jefferson, 33
    • John Adams, 40
    • Paul Revere, 41
    • George Washington, 44
    • Samuel Adams, 53
    • Benjamin Franklin, 70

    [/url]
    Easily explained: at the time, the average life span was only about 35 years for those that didn't succumb to infection, dysentery, smallpox, etc., so Carpe Diem was the norm (for today's stupid people: Carpe Diem is like "YOLO"). You only expected to have about 35 years to wreak havoc on this planet, so you went off to college early (~12 if I'm not mistaken) and were a full-fledged adult as soon as your voiced stopped cracking.
    Nowadays, people are living so long, they can take their life at a leisurely pace (college at 18, move out of parents' home at 37 ), and with politicians living several centuries longer than they should, their work pace reflects it.

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    Well, folks then weren't forcibly retarded into prolonged childhood by years of compulsory rote drilling (like so many Chinese worker bees), at the expense of their maturation and intellectual development.

    As much as I agree with Jefferson on the principle that a free people need to be well-educated to stay that way, I'm afraid the government has really screwed that one up. Probably because that whole "free people" thing is a conflict of interest for government.

    (Jefferson was an incredibly prescient guy, but apparently he missed that one.)

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    The ignorance and incapability, particularly with a pen, of "educated" people today (myself included) is appalling compared with the educated in 18th century America.

    Jonathan Edwards at 16:

    "I felt then great satisfaction, as to my good state; but that did not content me. I had vehement longings of soul after God and Christ, and after more holiness, wherewith my heart seemed to be full, and ready to break; which often brought to my mind the words of the Psalmist. My soul breaketh for the longing it hath. I often felt a mourning and lamenting in my heart, that I had not turned to God sooner, that I might have had more time to grow in grace. My mind was greatly fixed on divine things; almost perpetually in the contemplation of them. I spent most of my time in thinking of divine things, year after year; often walking alone in the woods, and solitary places, for meditation, soliloquy, and prayer, and conversation with God; and it was always my manner, at such times, to sing forth my contemplations. I was almost constantly in ejaculatory prayer, wherever I was. Prayer seemed to be natural to me, as the breath by which the inward burnings of my heart had vent. The delights which I now felt in the things of religion, were of an exceeding different kind from those before mentioned, that I had when a boy; and what I then had no more notion of, than one born blind has of pleasant and beautiful colors. They were of a more inward, pure, soul animating and refreshing nature. Those former delights never reached the heart; and did not arise from any sight of the divine excellency of the things of God; or any taste of the soul satisfying and life-giving good there is in them."

    Today's government education can produce Rachael Jeantel.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    The ignorance and incapability, particularly with a pen, of "educated" people today (myself included) is appalling compared with the educated in 18th century America.

    Jonathan Edwards at 16:

    "I felt then great satisfaction, as to my good state; but that did not content me. I had vehement longings of soul after God and Christ, and after more holiness, wherewith my heart seemed to be full, and ready to break; which often brought to my mind the words of the Psalmist. My soul breaketh for the longing it hath. I often felt a mourning and lamenting in my heart, that I had not turned to God sooner, that I might have had more time to grow in grace. My mind was greatly fixed on divine things; almost perpetually in the contemplation of them. I spent most of my time in thinking of divine things, year after year; often walking alone in the woods, and solitary places, for meditation, soliloquy, and prayer, and conversation with God; and it was always my manner, at such times, to sing forth my contemplations. I was almost constantly in ejaculatory prayer, wherever I was. Prayer seemed to be natural to me, as the breath by which the inward burnings of my heart had vent. The delights which I now felt in the things of religion, were of an exceeding different kind from those before mentioned, that I had when a boy; and what I then had no more notion of, than one born blind has of pleasant and beautiful colors. They were of a more inward, pure, soul animating and refreshing nature. Those former delights never reached the heart; and did not arise from any sight of the divine excellency of the things of God; or any taste of the soul satisfying and life-giving good there is in them."

    Today's government education can produce Rachael Jeantel.

    That sort of thing is impressive, but don't take it too far. Remember, at one time, the dialogue you see in Shakespeare's plays was actually everyday speech, and spoken at everyday speech speed.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-14-2013 at 07:19 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Remember, the revolutionaries and the founders weren't necessarily the same people, and depending on what point you set as the actual "founding", as much as 22 years passed between the revolution and the union of states.

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    Is the term " Founding Fathers" politically correct?

    CCJ

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    from source;

    Andrew Jackson, 9 considered a founding father..


    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...ranscript.html

    he did not sign the declaration though
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-15-2013 at 03:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Is the term " Founding Fathers" politically correct?

    CCJ
    I think the correct term is "founding babies daddy"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That sort of thing is impressive, but don't take it too far. Remember, at one time, the dialogue you see in Shakespeare's plays was actually everyday speech, and spoken at everyday speech speed.
    True, but, as time progressed, and folks moved west, we shed those city folk ways.

    Cowboy 1: Ya gunna work the north fence line?
    Cowboy 2: Yep
    Cowboy 1: When?
    Cowboy 2: In a bit.
    Cowboy 1: More beans?
    Cowboy 2: [burp] Yep.

    Simply scintillating exchanges back in the day.

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    Hmm. The fence riding that I am familiar with was a solitary job that took days, either riding out of a line shack or sleeping rough.

    An acquaintance made $500/mile laying 4-strand barbedwire in Klamath County, Oregon. His first employ was as a topper for highline logging - until he fell with the topped section and crushed his head. The crew took him for dead and threw him on the crummy into camp. He survived horribly disfigured in Chiloquin, Oregon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Hmm. The fence riding that I am familiar with was a solitary job that took days, either riding out of a line shack or sleeping rough.

    An acquaintance made $500/mile laying 4-strand barbedwire in Klamath County, Oregon. His first employ was as a topper for highline logging - until he fell with the topped section and crushed his head. The crew took him for dead and threw him on the crummy into camp. He survived horribly disfigured in Chiloquin, Oregon.
    One of my first paying jobs was setting fence lines - learned the value of having an extra pair of horsehide gloves.

    Drove a jeep with PTO/post hole augur and was back each day before dark. Still have my ol' fence hammer.....somewhere.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    One of my first paying jobs was setting fence lines - learned the value of having an extra pair of horsehide gloves.

    Drove a jeep with PTO/post hole augur and was back each day before dark. Still have my ol' fence hammer.....somewhere.
    Sounds like Jack's rig. A jeep with pipe frame welded over it and wire reels on the front bumper. We'd scrounge fence post trees, lay them on the frame, staple, and drive pulling the line taut. Then do our best to dig a hole or pile rocks to secure the post. Good hard and dumb work for striplings. There's not a lot of dirt in southern Oregon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Hmm. The fence riding that I am familiar with was a solitary job that took days, either riding out of a line shack or sleeping rough.

    An acquaintance made $500/mile laying 4-strand barbedwire in Klamath County, Oregon. His first employ was as a topper for highline logging - until he fell with the topped section and crushed his head. The crew took him for dead and threw him on the crummy into camp. He survived horribly disfigured in Chiloquin, Oregon.
    Yep [burp]. Did it in Wyoming and Idaho when I was a young buck working my way through college. My uncle had a spread in Wyoming and another one in Idaho. I hate horses [burp].

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Easily explained: at the time, the average life span was only about 35 years for those that didn't succumb to infection, dysentery, smallpox, etc., so Carpe Diem was the norm (for today's stupid people: Carpe Diem is like "YOLO"). You only expected to have about 35 years to wreak havoc on this planet, so you went off to college early (~12 if I'm not mistaken) and were a full-fledged adult as soon as your voiced stopped cracking.
    Not sure why people hold these kinds of misconceptions. The life expectancy (at birth) was about 35 years. So that's an average of everyone. One would need to look at an life expectancy @ 5 or @ 10 to get a better feeling for how long people actually lived.

    It was hard finding data, but I did find some research done here. It states that for the late 18th century, expected death for someone who is 20 years old is 64yo, someone who makes it to 30 will live to be 66, and someone who makes it to 50 is expected to make it to 70.

    So no, the fact remains that the folks involved in the Declaration of Independence are surprisingly young by today's standards, and not especially "old" by 1776 standards.

    And also, Andrew Jackson is not considered a founding father.

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    the founding fathers were real patriots, just like CA Patriot

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    the founding fathers were real patriots, just like CA Patriot
    lol best post ever.

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