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Thread: I want to exercise my right

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I want to exercise my right

    Before anyone starts posting about their permits, read the following clip. It isn't Virginia....but it could be if the P4P agenda continues. This idiot doesn't have a clue about what a right is!

    And the surge appears to be fueled by worried residents like 66-year-old Nancy Ellis, a soon-to-be gun-toting grandma who claims Connecticut’s draconian new gun control laws are infringing on her constitutional rights.


    “The fact that they were reeling in and squeezing more laws made me think, ‘You know what? I want my gun permit,’ ” said Ellis. “I want to exercise my right.”




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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Before anyone starts posting about their permits, read the following clip. It isn't Virginia....but it could be if the P4P agenda continues. This idiot doesn't have a clue about what a right is!



    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Oh yes, please, I'd like one permit to talk bad about the government. Oh, I can't have one? Well I guess I can't use that right either. Darn.

    /Sarcasm

    It bothers me that that is the general consensus, that you have to have "permission" to exercise your rights. While I do have a CHP, I think Constitutional Carry is the way to go. Speaking of, is that something we are going to push for soon, since we had our hands full this past year?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    I want to exercise my rights, as well. That is why I do not have a persmission slip from big brother that allows me to "exercise" them. That is why I am glad to live in Virginia, a state (commonwealth, yeah, yeah) that acknowledges open carry with OUT a permission slip. That is why I will be even more pleased when Virginia gets Constitutional carry, though I cannot figure out why we do not have it, now (swamp gas from Mordor-across-the-Potomac affecting our state "representatives," I guess). I am pretty dumb, like that, though: I cannot figure out why state and federal laws that infringe the hell out of the second amendment always pass legal muster and allow infringements all over creation.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Constitutional Carry is the way to go. Speaking of, is that something we are going to push for soon, since we had our hands full this past year?
    It's always being discussed Eddy, but I doubt we'll ever see it if you want my honest opinion. It will take a serious lobby group to push it through as well as telling the NRA to pound sand. Mad Mike and his bunch sure can't do it, the NRA opposes it in the closet, that leaves VCDL.

    VCDL has some top notch board members but for various reasons, some feel Const. Carry should be on the back burner.
    All agree it won't pass the first try...I expect it would take at least 3 years in a favorable climate.

    The feeling among a lot of gun owners is that we really need it...right after we improve the permit process.

    Things like that that get put on back burners, rarely get cooked.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I want to exercise my right

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's always being discussed Eddy, but I doubt we'll ever see it if you want my honest opinion. It will take a serious lobby group to push it through as well as telling the NRA to pound sand. Mad Mike and his bunch sure can't do it, the NRA opposes it in the closet, that leaves VCDL.

    VCDL has some top notch board members but for various reasons, some feel Const. Carry should be on the back burner.
    All agree it won't pass the first try...I expect it would take at least 3 years in a favorable climate.

    The feeling among a lot of gun owners is that we really need it...right after we improve the permit process.

    Things like that that get put on back burners, rarely get cooked.
    What needs to be fixed about the permit process? The only thing we can do to make it better is get Const. Carry. Right?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    What needs to be fixed about the permit process? The only thing we can do to make it better is get Const. Carry. Right?
    Depends on who you ask. Faster turnaround, CWP instead of a CHP, there was a bill proposed several years ago to limit the period of time they could go back to refuse one to 3 years, allow permit holders to carry on posted property, allow permit holders to skip the Federal and State Background Check, allow permi holders to bypass the signoff on full auto, allow permit holders to carry in courthouses, allow permit holders to carry in schools.

    The list is endless and all are being or have been asked for by one group or the other.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-15-2013 at 11:44 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    I am pretty dumb, like that, though: I cannot figure out why state and federal laws that infringe the hell out of the second amendment always pass legal muster and allow infringements all over creation.
    I think we met in person 4 years ago Nemo....I've never had any reason to think you're even close to dumb!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Eddy, here's an example of how permits become a problem and this is based on Current Connecticut law.

    There's a lot of complaining here about the 45 day rule so lets assume a bill that's being marketed as "Baby Steps" to Constitutional Carry is introduced.

    The bill would allow an instant CHP after finishing a class. In Conn, the local cops issue it but in Va. the Instructor could issue a 45 day temporary permit assuming the student had gone through a background check while purchasing a gun.

    That's not unheard of. You can get a 30 day registration for your boat from Walmart and 30 day tags from a car dealer.

    Anyway, from that time, the State Police have 45 days to issue your 5 year permit.

    Whoo HOO...say the kiddies, I can play James Bond when I leave the classroom.

    Now that law is on the books, Constitutional Carry is the furthest thing from their minds since they don't need it.

    Baby steps like that will eventually wipe out open carry and we will be a permit state.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-15-2013 at 12:10 PM.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Eddy, here's an example of how permits become a problem and this is based on Current Connecticut law.

    There's a lot of complaining here about the 45 day rule so lets assume a bill that's being marketed as "Baby Steps" to Constitutional Carry is introduced.

    The bill would allow an instant CHP after finishing a class. In Conn, the local cops issue it but in Va. the Instructor could issue a 45 day temporary permit assuming the student had gone through a background check while purchasing a gun.

    That's not unheard of. You can get a 30 day registration for your boat from Walmart and 30 day tags from a car dealer.

    Anyway, from that time, the State Police have 45 days to issue your 5 year permit.

    Whoo HOO...say the kiddies, I can play James Bond when I leave the classroom.

    Now that law is on the books, Constitutional Carry is the furthest thing from their minds since they don't need it.

    Baby steps like that will eventually wipe out open carry and we will be a permit state.
    I see where that could be an issue. I have a question though, and feel free to speak your mind. As you know, I am a young grasshopper and I still have much to learn:

    Do you think that if we had Const. Carry, permits would go away? For example, AZ still issues permits, and they have their benefits IIRC. Would P4P still be a problem, if the basic Right is still granted under Const. Carry?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    What needs to be fixed about the permit process? The only thing we can do to make it better is get Const. Carry. Right?
    Don't we already have that? I'm confused .. (not really)

    Keep the faith !

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    I want to exercise my rights, as well. That is why I do not have a persmission slip from big brother that allows me to "exercise" them. That is why I am glad to live in Virginia, a state (commonwealth, yeah, yeah) that acknowledges open carry with OUT a permission slip. That is why I will be even more pleased when Virginia gets Constitutional carry, though I cannot figure out why we do not have it, now (swamp gas from Mordor-across-the-Potomac affecting our state "representatives," I guess). I am pretty dumb, like that, though: I cannot figure out why state and federal laws that infringe the hell out of the second amendment always pass legal muster and allow infringements all over creation.
    Someone more clever than myself recently wrote words to the effect of: We live under a judicial system that has somehow managed to find a "right" to abortion in a constitution that says nothing about abortion, and at the same time, can't manage to find a "right" to keep an bear arms in the same constitution which protects that right in clear and plain text.

    TFred

    PS: If anyone recognizes the original author of that thought, I'd love to know, I can't find it.
    Last edited by TFred; 08-15-2013 at 12:52 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I see where that could be an issue. I have a question though, and feel free to speak your mind. As you know, I am a young grasshopper and I still have much to learn:

    Do you think that if we had Const. Carry, permits would go away? For example, AZ still issues permits, and they have their benefits IIRC. Would P4P still be a problem, if the basic Right is still granted under Const. Carry?
    No, they won't go away and there's nothing wrong with that. The big reason for permits will be to keep reciprocity with other states. people that need or want that will get them.

    I don't have a passport but many people do because they want to leave the country. I ain't going anywhere. A CHP is permission to hide your gun. As long as it stays that way (Too late actually) they don't bother me at all.

    I have no issues with people that want them until they start....Well I'm specially trained and approved. I should be able to ____________Fill in the blank.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No, they won't go away and there's nothing wrong with that. The big reason for permits will be to keep reciprocity with other states. people that need or want that will get them.

    I don't have a passport but many people do because they want to leave the country. I ain't going anywhere. A CHP is permission to hide your gun. As long as it stays that way (Too late actually) they don't bother me at all.

    I have no issues with people that want them until they start....Well I'm specially trained and approved. I should be able to ____________Fill in the blank.
    Now I am not saying it SHOULD be this way, but do you think it would be easier to get something like guns at school OK'd if the individual carrying at school had some sort of BG check?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    From this layman's point of view no.

    Does the BG check, special training make the legal gun carrier a better shot, a better gun carrier, more moral etc...
    The anwser is no. So, as long as we are both legal why should it matter if I have a background check or not......The bad guys going to carry anyway.

    And in the minds of the anti personal defense folks we are all the same. We are violent criminals just waiting our turn to commit a violent crime, background check or not.


    Treat guns like any other tool.


    The probelm I see is we have too many "special" gun owners not wanting to loose their special status, so they work against Constitutional carry like they did I AZ.

    Many special gun owners don't care so they just sit on the sidelines, excepting whatever happens as a win as long as they can keep there special status and perks.


    And some just let the big boys in the gun lobby speak for them....

    And the big boys are all about the dollar. If there's no money to be made than no thanks.
    Last edited by Marco; 08-15-2013 at 03:25 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Eddy, here's an example of how permits become a problem and this is based on Current Connecticut law.

    There's a lot of complaining here about the 45 day rule so lets assume a bill that's being marketed as "Baby Steps" to Constitutional Carry is introduced.

    The bill would allow an instant CHP after finishing a class. In Conn, the local cops issue it but in Va. the Instructor could issue a 45 day temporary permit assuming the student had gone through a background check while purchasing a gun.

    That's not unheard of. You can get a 30 day registration for your boat from Walmart and 30 day tags from a car dealer.

    Anyway, from that time, the State Police have 45 days to issue your 5 year permit.

    Whoo HOO...say the kiddies, I can play James Bond when I leave the classroom.

    Now that law is on the books, Constitutional Carry is the furthest thing from their minds since they don't need it.

    Baby steps like that will eventually wipe out open carry and we will be a permit state.
    FYI: In CT the police may issue a temp permit while awaiting the permit process to complete ... MAY is the operative word ... if any have been issued is unknown to me but I assume that some have ...

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    FYI: In CT the police may issue a temp permit while awaiting the permit process to complete ... MAY is the operative word ... if any have been issued is unknown to me but I assume that some have ...
    I know that David but since you're responsible for the laws there....feel free to butt in as usual. My example was based on Connecticut, not following it exactly where the period is also 60 days for the State police to respond.

    It was to show what happens when idiots make idiot laws similar to your state.

    Perhaps if you spent some time fighting with the legislature there instead of hanging around the Virginia forum....You all might know the difference between a privilege and a right.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-15-2013 at 04:45 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Now I am not saying it SHOULD be this way, but do you think it would be easier to get something like guns at school OK'd if the individual carrying at school had some sort of BG check?
    OK, suppose it went that way. What would prevent requiring a background check to be at school in the first place? Or background checks to attend state/government meetings, since only voters have any real interest in what the .gov does - felons and others without the franchise need to just suck it up and do what they are told until they get the franchise. (Can I get a reality check on that? Sometimes it seems to be more true than other times.)

    Which merely saves me from trotting out that the Va Tech shooter had passed a background check and the Newtown shooter (iirc) had never subjected himself to one. Or that, I think, Bradley Manning passed a Top Secret background check.

    Why am I being compelled to certify I have done nothing wrong in the past when the issue is clearly what I am doing now? There had to have been a day when Jesse James had not yet robbed a train. Would having a BG check have stopped him from deciding one day to rob a train?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I want to exercise my right

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    OK, suppose it went that way. What would prevent requiring a background check to be at school in the first place? Or background checks to attend state/government meetings, since only voters have any real interest in what the .gov does - felons and others without the franchise need to just suck it up and do what they are told until they get the franchise. (Can I get a reality check on that? Sometimes it seems to be more true than other times.)

    Which merely saves me from trotting out that the Va Tech shooter had passed a background check and the Newtown shooter (iirc) had never subjected himself to one. Or that, I think, Bradley Manning passed a Top Secret background check.

    Why am I being compelled to certify I have done nothing wrong in the past when the issue is clearly what I am doing now? There had to have been a day when Jesse James had not yet robbed a train. Would having a BG check have stopped him from deciding one day to rob a train?

    stay safe.
    Wow. I was unaware of several of those facts, and I see what you are saying.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I know that David but since you're responsible for the laws there....feel free to butt in as usual. My example was based on Connecticut, not following it exactly where the period is also 60 days for the State police to respond.

    It was to show what happens when idiots make idiot laws similar to your state.

    Perhaps if you spent some time fighting with the legislature there instead of hanging around the Virginia forum....You all might know the difference between a privilege and a right.
    Don't worry Pete ... I do both !

    Also, I did not know that you knew ... until you posted here .. your post indicated that you did not .. as I read it ...

    You have no privileges .... only those that the state wishes you to have upon begging.

    Its clear that gun ownership, practice, and carry are rights .. the declaration of independence even says that ~ one of our nation's first documents. They new that they would be fighting with both words and bullets.

  20. #20
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Most people are content with permits because they have to get a permit for everything else. I believe in Va and in some other states that you have to have inspection stickers renewed every year or you can't drive. Ridiculous. Every place in the country a permit to build a tree house a permit to drive a permit to start a business a permit for this a permit for that, and the list goes on and on. My dad lives in Manassas, Va, the rules and regulations regarding the disposal of peat for septic/drainage fields was surreal. You had to pay a special company thousands of dollars to suck it out and ship it to North Carolina. He didn't of course, risking thousands in fines. The rational behind was peat polluting the Chesapeake Bay, which was ridiculous. Only the government could think of such stupidity.

    Concealed weapons permits are a special kind of stupid. Florida spends millions of $ for every permit denied or revoked for actual violent crimes. The idea that someone will rape, or rob, or murder but won't break the law against carrying concealed has to be the most foolish thing to come out of the government hive mind, ever.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think we met in person 4 years ago Nemo....I've never had any reason to think you're even close to dumb!
    Thanks (sometimes I can be a slow reader, though....)

    For the record (just trying to help the NSA with their records!), we met maybe twice in Richmond (I don't always attend Lobby Day: shame on me) and once in Surry.

    Good idea putting photos up, in that other thread: I like to put names with faces.

  22. #22
    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Someone more clever than myself recently wrote words to the effect of: We live under a judicial system that has somehow managed to find a "right" to abortion in a constitution that says nothing about abortion, and at the same time, can't manage to find a "right" to keep an bear arms in the same constitution which protects that right in clear and plain text.
    TFred
    PS: If anyone recognizes the original author of that thought, I'd love to know, I can't find it.
    I remember reading words to that effect, as well. Well, put down fixing the judicial system right after we finish fixing the legislativve system, right after we finish fixing the executive system.

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