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Thread: Virginia Open Carry 'Gun Grab'?

  1. #1
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    Virginia Open Carry 'Gun Grab'?

    I seem to recall bits and pieces of this incident being posted quite a while back, but the information at the time seemed to indicate the firearm was dropped or fell out of the holster, and then was grabbed by the bad guy. This article seems to put a different light on it.

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...7696473d8.html

    <<An 18-year-old man was sentenced this week to 40 years in prison for murdering two men in separate shootings in South Richmond, including one victim who was shot with his own gun after it was snatched from his holster.>>

    <<Tyler, 48, a customer at the gas station, was wearing a gun in a holster, plainly visible, when Smith grabbed the weapon from him during a struggle inside the store and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith, authorities said.>>

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    So who said...,

    much of "modern journalism" leaves a great deal to be desired? Uh..., I'm pretty sure I did.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    We pretty much put it to rest as not meeting the criteria. Some cried "Foul" because of technicalities. Darn those detail.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    We pretty much put it to rest as not meeting the criteria. Some cried "Foul" because of technicalities. Darn those detail.

    stay safe.
    Not to overly rehash something that apparently was 'put to rest'.... but what is the specifc criteria that a valid 'gun grab' must have?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Reactionary Zone

    During the Surry Trial, I was talking to one of the Guards involved. This fellow makes stupid people look good.

    He told me Skidmark "Was in the Captain's reactionary zone". I asked him what the hell a reactionary zone was and he said "We were trained that when someone got in your face, they were in your reactionary zone and you had to go upside his head or shoot him if he was armed".

    You reckon those fearless warriors have scenario training...

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Not to overly rehash something that apparently was 'put to rest'.... but what is the specifc criteria that a valid 'gun grab' must have?
    Among other things, that the victim was targetted specifically because they were OCing. This situation involved a robbery in progress where the OCer became involved.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I asked him what the hell a reactionary zone was
    It's the "don't let people get within it" zone/gap/whatever. I've been through two LE academies, and the "reactionary zone/gap" was taught differently at both. The first one ( a federal one ) was "3-6 Feet". The second ( a local one ) was "Arm's reach plus 6 inches". Neither taught us anything about "going up side someone's head" and/or shooting arbitrarily.
    Sounds to me like your description of the guard may be pretty spot-on.
    Last edited by starbuck; 08-16-2013 at 04:23 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbuck View Post
    It's the "don't let people get within it" zone/gap/whatever. I've been through two LE academies, and the "reactionary zone/gap" was taught differently at both. The first one ( a federal one ) was "3-6 Feet". The second ( a local one ) was "Arm's reach plus 6 inches". Neither taught us anything about "going up side someone's head" and/or shooting arbitrarily.
    Sounds to me like your description of the guard may be pretty spot-on.
    That's where my post went. It was supposed to be in the scenario thread.
    I thought Ed nuked it.

    Sorry about all those bad things you didn't hear me say Ed!

    Another Senior Moment

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Not to overly rehash something that apparently was 'put to rest'.... but what is the specifc criteria that a valid 'gun grab' must have?
    In this case a tussle ensued, the 1st time OCers gun fell out, bad guy picked it up and ran, good guy chased him and got shot for his efforts.

    He was not targeted for his gun. It was not snatched from his holster or his hand.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-17-2013 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Belated spelling
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Sorry about all those bad things you didn't hear me say Ed!
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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