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Thread: Firefighter says he waved at police and was handcuffed and threatened

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Firefighter says he waved at police and was handcuffed and threatened

    EVANSVILLE Evansville firefighter George Madison Jr. has filed a formal complaint about an Evansville Police Department officer who he said stopped him during a bicycle ride Tuesday afternoon, threatened him with a stun gun and handcuffed him.

    http://www.courierpress.com/news/201...4/police-herp/
    Uh, giving the one-fingered salute is a protected form of expression. The cop seems to disagree with this premise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Uh, giving the one-fingered salute is a protected form of expression. The cop seems to disagree with this premise.
    No, no, no. The cop took the firefighter into momentary protective custody to protect the firefighter from other people who don't recognize that its a protected form of expression.

    /sarcasm


    Another isolated incident.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Shun them and their apologists.
    Ridicule them. Government can't stand not being taken seriously.

    While their apologists may not be as self-important, they hate being ridiculed, too.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The father of four said he feared for his safety during the stop by two officers on South Weinbach Avenue.
    One officer is the trigger man, the other officer is to make sure that their stories match regarding the one-fingered salute.

    LEO 1: That dude just flipped me off!!
    LEO 2: Uh, I don't think so.
    LEO 1: I think he did.
    LEO 2: I'm pretty sure he didn't.
    LEO 1: I ain't gunna let that dude get away with dissing me.
    LEO 2: OK, lets cuff him.

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    Saw this story .. figured if it was a white guy (even if he did give the finger) would have been fine ...

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    Was he open carrying?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    See no connection to OC or RKBA.

    Don't even see evidence of the one-finger salute.

    Not sure why this pot is being stirred - it isn't what's for dinner.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It is the fireman's fault for not going to PD roll calls to train officers in how to get waved at. <sarcasm>
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    See no connection to OC or RKBA.
    Up until a couple years ago I would have (and frequently did) keep my disagreement to myself. Lately, however, things have gotten simply Kafkaesque.

    The fact is, the single biggest threat to many an OCer is a rogue cop, each of whom is enabled by a profession rife with systemic problems. Until reform is forthcoming, the beating of this drum will continue, and is of utmost relevance to every American all the time.

    It's that serious.
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-16-2013 at 09:05 PM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Saw this story .. figured if it was a white guy (even if he did give the finger) would have been fine ...
    I can picture the exact hand gesture he made. It's common among cyclists. It's simply a palm facing you all fingers together lifting of the arm, which kind of means, 'hey am I invisible, I'm riding here'. It's not the italian sign (vaf fanculo), which means up yours, because that has the other hand in the crook of the elbow. This one-handed gesture really means nothing but 'hey!'.

    Cops were being total d)cks to take issue with that.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Up until a couple years ago I would have (and frequently did) keep my disagreement to myself. Lately, however, things have gotten simply Kafkaesque.

    The fact is, the single biggest threat to many an OCer is a rogue cop, each of whom is enabled by a profession rife with systemic problems. Until reform is forthcoming, the beating of this drum will continue, and is of utmost relevance to every American all the time.

    It's that serious.
    Don't think so. Just see more publicity and tying everything a LEO does that doesn't make someone happy back to OC/RKBA.

    Was going to move it to the Social Lounge, but before I could do so someone else did....wonder who? /rhetorical
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't think so. Just see more publicity and tying everything a LEO does that doesn't make someone happy back to OC/RKBA.

    Was going to move it to the Social Lounge, but before I could do so someone else did....wonder who? /rhetorical
    Oh, well, I agree it belongs in the Social Lounge. But I disagree there is no relevance to OC.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Oh, well, I agree it belongs in the Social Lounge. But I disagree there is no relevance to OC.
    Contradictory statements.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't think so. Just see more publicity and tying everything a LEO does that doesn't make someone happy back to OC/RKBA.

    Was going to move it to the Social Lounge, but before I could do so someone else did....wonder who? /rhetorical
    A very specious comment. You think being cuffed, and threatened with a stun gun for NOTHING is akin to a cop not making someone happy?

    You may not like 'cop bashing' but I take issue with this kind of sugar coating of a terroristic behavior under color of authority.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    A very specious comment. You think being cuffed, and threatened with a stun gun for NOTHING is akin to a cop not making someone happy?

    You may not like 'cop bashing' but I take issue with this kind of sugar coating of a terroristic behavior under color of authority.
    And I take issue with people overstating and distorting what has been said. My point was to put it in perspective and context of this forum - I do not apologize for that.

    When the verbiage/posts reach a certain level where the preponderance are finding fault (particularly with exaggerated expressions like "terroristic behavior") then it is cop bashing......and a violation of Forum Rules
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And I take issue with people overstating and distorting what has been said. My point was to put it in perspective and context of this forum - I do not apologize for that.

    When the verbiage/posts reach a certain level where the preponderance are finding fault (particularly with exaggerated expressions like "terroristic behavior") then it is cop bashing......and a violation of Forum Rules
    Someone can't stand to be wrong. Pity.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Someone can't stand to be wrong. Pity.
    You think I am wrong, then use the forum tool for that and report it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Contradictory statements.
    Alternate pleading not allowed here ... I'm in trouble ()

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Contradictory statements.
    Nope. By the standard practices of the forum, topics this indirectly related to OC belong in the social lounge.

    That does not imply that there is no relevance to OC from any possible perspective.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You think I am wrong, then use the forum tool for that and report it.
    I didn't say that. I said someone can't standing being wrong.

    HTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You think I am wrong, then use the forum tool for that and report it.
    Being wrong is no reason to report someone.

    When someone is wrong about a statement that they make, the correct recourse is to point it out.

    BTW, he was not commenting on your being wrong. He was commenting on how you seem to feel about it. I won't comment on whether he is right or wrong in that judgment.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Maybe the community should hold a protest at the PD. Go down there and flip them off a few dozen times? I mean, a right unexercised is a right lost, right?

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It is the fireman's fault for not going to PD roll calls to train officers in how to get waved at. <sarcasm>
    Hmmm. I don't know about that.

    Maybe we should ask PALOS.

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    Some years ago, in Wisconsin, a bill was proposed (and failed) that allowed a cop to interpret the finger as a threat and to respond with force.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    A careful reading of the cited article indicates that thje youth pastor bicyclist wa about to/intended to/did blast thtough a 4-way stop, doing so approximately in front of the cop(s) involved. When the cop(s) initiated actions that might be preliminary to lights & sirens needed to effect a stop the youth pastor attempted to use his cell phone, while still riding, to call either one of the cops trying/about to stop him or (not clear) a third cop passing by who happens to be a member of the church. When stopped the youth pastopr is told to put the cell phone down - which he promptly does not do.

    Cop has a moment of pique due to this authoritay not being respected and pulls the taser, saying words to the effect of "Do not make me pull tje trigger."

    Youth pastor is put in cuffs and sat on the side of the street while cop(s) #1 (and possibly #2) process the field paperwork associated with the stop/detention - which might have some distant and vague relationship to the youth pastor's possibly blowing through a 4-way stop (aggrivated by the fact that there was approaching and cross traffic, per the cited article).

    OP grabs one aspect of te encounter, adds a headline ascribing causation based, as far as this writer can determine, on both unfounded speculation and some generalized notion that cops only do things to violate individual rights for no purpose and arrest for the most innocent of behaviors. Great discussion ensures regarding cops, cop bashing, the relationship to OC or not, and why The Social Lounge does or dioes not exist as a dumping ground for material and subjects unrelated to the main focus of the board.

    From the very bottom of the lukewarm remnant of the remaining cockle of my heart I wish to thank all those involved for the entertainment.

    stay safe.
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