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Thread: FedGov targets instructors of polygraph-beating methods.

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    FedGov targets instructors of polygraph-beating methods.

    "So far, authorities have targeted at least two instructors, one of whom has pleaded guilty to federal charges, several people familiar with the investigation told McClatchy. Investigators confiscated business records from the two men, which included the names of as many as 5,000 people who’d sought polygraph-beating advice. U.S. agencies have determined that at least 20 of them applied for government and federal contracting jobs, and at least half of that group was hired, including by the National Security Agency. By attempting to prosecute the instructors, federal officials are adopting a controversial legal stance that sharing such information should be treated as a crime and isn’t protected under the First Amendment in some circumstances."

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/1...structors.html

    Whittling our rights away. Will gun safety follow soon?
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Merely more proof that thereis a law against just about everything, that said laws all had at one time a "reasonable" basis for being introduced, and that they can easily be twisted from their initial purpose.

    Without getting up out of bed you can commit no fewer than three federal felonies. It's a wonder more folks do not save their energy and just follow that route instead of doing all the things they do just to wind up in federal prison.

    By writing this I should wind up on at lest one more federal watch list - bringing the total number containing my name to ... wait a minute, I'm still counting.

    stay safe.
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    And Russia Today picks up the story.

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    Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable. I wonder if the story title isn't a little sensationalized, perhaps by government.

    "Men Prosecuted for Teaching How to Not Get Screwed Out of a Job by an Inaccurate Polygraph Test" might be a more believable title.

    Of course, if the test is used for a job in government, I have little sympathy for the applicant.
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    Like RT missed the point, First Amendment issues are not mundane to polygraph tests, but Fourth and Fifth Amendment Rights are at great risk.

    I was a federal employee for 25 years with a clearance as high as I needed for the job. I was never polygraphed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Like RT missed the point, First Amendment issues are not mundane to polygraph tests, but Fourth and Fifth Amendment Rights are at great risk.

    I was a federal employee for 25 years with a clearance as high as I needed for the job. I was never polygraphed.
    4th & 5th amendments? You need not take the polygraph, right...they cannot force you?

    Of course, the defendants will be found guilty .. although they should not even be on trial...

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    FedGov targets instructors of polygraph-beating methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    4th & 5th amendments? You need not take the polygraph, right...they cannot force you?

    Of course, the defendants will be found guilty .. although they should not even be on trial...
    I just took a poly for clearance that I will need for a job. You can at any time plead the 5th and not answer a question. However, doing so could hypothetically cost you the clearance and possibly cost you your job. Factors that you need to weigh.


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    FedGov targets instructors of polygraph-beating methods.

    I'm sorry but it's a federal/government position where if you want the job you must take a poly-graph. Just like when you apply for a job they drug test you if you alter it or pass under false presences its automatic termination. I don't know how it is for the government.. But I will say this IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO teach a service like this. They may say it's for national security but it's protected..
    Just my .02- I wouldn't want to hire someone who is lie-in to me :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimusmaximus View Post
    I'm sorry but it's a federal/government position where if you want the job you must take a poly-graph. Just like when you apply for a job they drug test you if you alter it or pass under false presences its automatic termination. I don't know how it is for the government.. But I will say this IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO teach a service like this. They may say it's for national security but it's protected..
    Just my .02- I wouldn't want to hire someone who is lie-in to me :/
    KCCO!!!!!


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-
    Sorry, but you don't have to work for the government ... I agree though, teaching how to "beat the test" should not be illegals .. but they'll still be found guilty

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    and next they will go after people who use encryption or shield their phones from the cell networks. It will soon be illegal to not to submit to Un-Constitutional searches.

    Thanks big Government
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    If a polygraph can be beaten, it is not a reliable tool and should not be used.

    Teaching someone to thwart an unreliable tool, thereby protecting themselves from unreliability that impacts them negatively, is a good thing! It should not be a crime.

    BTW, I have been a victim of an errant polygraph. Polygraphs do not reveal deception. They reveal stress which may be from deception--or from something else entirely! I can personally attest to that.

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    Polygraphs are absolutely unreliable; they are almost as reliable as reading tea leaves. However, the power of the polygraph is not how accurate it is, but how much the person taking it believes it to be. If it is believed to be accurate the person taking the test is more likely to admit to things in the pre and post interviews. These admissions are oftentimes enough for disqualification without the actual test.

    For example, if a job has a zero tolerance policy on drug use, if someone admits to smoking pot casually etc, they have just cost themselves the job without even taking the test.

    It is also noteworthy that most, if not all of the spies from .gov agencies passed their polygraphs, while innocent people failed. I believe that in the case of Aldrich Ames, he passed and 3 people failed. .Gov directed it's resources toward the 3 that failed and allowed Ames to continue spying until he was intimately caught.

    I am not a huge fan of the polygraph and information about how they work, what triggers them and how to take them successfully has been on the internet since there was an internet.

    BTW, I have been a victim of an errant polygraph. Polygraphs do not reveal deception. They reveal stress which may be from deception--or from something else entirely! I can personally attest to that.
    They can also fail you if you are trying to hold in gas. Not a good tool in and of itself.
    Last edited by Black_water; 08-17-2013 at 07:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    and next they will go after people who use encryption or shield their phones from the cell networks. It will soon be illegal to not to submit to Un-Constitutional searches.

    Thanks big Government
    Or go after those that remove the battery from the device so it CAN'T be remotely activated and tracked!
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    Fu(k the state and all those who worship it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Merely more proof that thereis a law against just about everything, that said laws all had at one time a "reasonable" basis for being introduced, and that they can easily be twisted from their initial purpose.

    Without getting up out of bed you can commit no fewer than three federal felonies. It's a wonder more folks do not save their energy and just follow that route instead of doing all the things they do just to wind up in federal prison.

    By writing this I should wind up on at lest one more federal watch list - bringing the total number containing my name to ... wait a minute, I'm still counting.

    stay safe.
    I thought that you're in favor of having a law for everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    I thought that you're in favor of having a law for everything.
    Let's remember that it's the feds that pull this rubbish. States are much better at not legislating EVERY single thing in existence.

    That being said, if I was a betting man, I'd bet that this is going to be found unconstitutional on first amendment grounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Fu(k the state and all those who worship it.
    Sorry to interrupt the thread fellas, but the brilliant rhetoricist who brought us the quote just above wrote me an antagonistic PM.

    He posted a thread today--now deleted--in which his OP was filled with misanthropic commentary, and a huge self-contradiction. I pointed out those characteristics.

    I just discovered the PM below. My PM box is for polite communications; I don't keep it turned on or check it regularly as a courtesy to antagonists. My policy is to always publicize hostile or antagonistic PMs. Nobody should try to claim a privacy interest in a hostile PM. I am under no obligation to help my antagonists hide their attacks.

    Here is the paranoid rant that arrived in my PM box from Minarchist:

    Your creepy behavior
    There came a point when you started to make a conspicuous effort to follow me around the board and condemn whatever it is that I was posting about, even if it was something that one would reasonably conclude that someone like you (a self-portrayed liberty-loving person) would agree with, apparently because you're intolerant and dislike my posting style (as if someone was forcing you to read my posts). I have no doubt that if I started a thread about how much gun control sucks, that you'd promptly show up and condemn what I had to say.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Sorry to interrupt the thread fellas, but the brilliant rhetoricist who brought us the quote just above wrote me an antagonistic PM.

    He posted a thread today--now deleted--in which his OP was filled with misanthropic commentary, and a huge self-contradiction. I pointed out those characteristics.

    I just discovered the PM below. My PM box is for polite communications; I don't keep it turned on or check it regularly as a courtesy to antagonists. My policy is to always publicize hostile or antagonistic PMs. Nobody should try to claim a privacy interest in a hostile PM. I am under no obligation to help my antagonists hide their attacks.

    Here is the paranoid rant that arrived in my PM box from Minarchist:
    You felt that you had to expose this PM .... the power of Christ compels you!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgAvehEDHYY

    Kinda docile PM to me ...

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Sorry to interrupt the thread fellas, but the brilliant rhetoricist who brought us the quote just above wrote me an antagonistic PM.

    He posted a thread today--now deleted--in which his OP was filled with misanthropic commentary, and a huge self-contradiction. I pointed out those characteristics.

    I just discovered the PM below. My PM box is for polite communications; I don't keep it turned on or check it regularly as a courtesy to antagonists. My policy is to always publicize hostile or antagonistic PMs. Nobody should try to claim a privacy interest in a hostile PM. I am under no obligation to help my antagonists hide their attacks.

    Here is the paranoid rant that arrived in my PM box from Minarchist:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs
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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Sorry to interrupt the thread fellas, but the brilliant rhetoricist who brought us the quote just above wrote me an antagonistic PM.

    He posted a thread today--now deleted--in which his OP was filled with misanthropic commentary, and a huge self-contradiction. I pointed out those characteristics.

    I just discovered the PM below. My PM box is for polite communications; I don't keep it turned on or check it regularly as a courtesy to antagonists. My policy is to always publicize hostile or antagonistic PMs. Nobody should try to claim a privacy interest in a hostile PM. I am under no obligation to help my antagonists hide their attacks.

    Here is the paranoid rant that arrived in my PM box from Minarchist:
    There came a point when it was as if a switch was flipped, and you started condemning me for posting things that one would expect you, based on your posting history, to agree with. Since then, you have followed me around and ridiculed me for my pro-liberty posts.

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