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Thread: off-duty cop shot a man

  1. #1
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    off-duty cop shot a man

    LAS VEGAS (KSNV & MyNews3) -- Metro says a car-jacking gone wrong turned into an officer-involved shooting.

    An off-duty cop shot a man and now Metro is describing what happened.

    Metro says an off-duty detective distracted the man who was trying to steal his car.

    The detective acted like he was reaching for his keys but instead he was reaching for his gun which he had stashed in between the front seat and the center console.

    The officer grabbed it and fired one shot.

    The man shot, Saul Villegas, did not have a gun.

    Villegas is from California and was visiting family in Las Vegas.

    Hard to tell for sure however, I wonder what would have happen to a non-metro armed person if they had shot this unarmed thief?
    I am of the opinion the safest place for a firearm other in a safe is on the person. This is a good example why. May be he could not qualify for a CCW permit.
    His gun which he had stashed in between the front seat and the center console?
    I see this as irresponsible loss of control of his weapon, which only luck kept it from going bad.

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    Off duty cop cannot carry w/o a CCW? I doubt he is not eligible...maybe never got a CCW, yes.

    But he shot an unarmed man ... so he will have some explaining to do.

    What the explanation is I have no idea. Just being in the process of stealing a car good enough?

    I think it went bad enough for Saul.

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    So he didn't have a gun. What did he threaten the officer with? I find it hard to believe he was completely unarmed or didn't allude he did have a weapon.

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    Most likely he made threats I can't see car thief trying to steal a car with someone inside is going to say please and thank you.
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    HR218 is the peace officer's protection act, it allows a working cop from any department, as well a a retired cop from any department current on his range qualifications to carry a concealed weapon nationwide without the need for a CCW
    Last edited by rickyray9; 08-18-2013 at 12:07 PM.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyray9 View Post
    HR218 is the peace officer's protection act, it allows a working cop from any department, as well a a retired cop from any department current on his range qualifications to carry a concealed weapon nationwide without the need for a CCW
    There is a similar NRS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyray9 View Post
    HR218 is the peace officer's protection act, it allows a working cop from any department, as well a a retired cop from any department current on his range qualifications to carry a concealed weapon nationwide without the need for a CCW
    HR218 requires its own permit that the cop must apply for; they do not just get to carry automatically outside the other limitations of law.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Most likely he made threats I can't see car thief trying to steal a car with someone inside is going to say please and thank you.
    This is my thinking. An active threat gets the presumption of being armed or otherwise capable of carrying out the threat. Someone in a car is cornered and should not have to take the time to carefully evaluate the situation against a known bad guy in the commission of a felony.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    While thinking up possibilities for shooting an unarmed man, lets not overlook that we have only the PD's word that it was an attempted carjacking. And, keep in mind which PD we're talking about.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-19-2013 at 02:35 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While thinking up possibilities for shooting an unarmed man, lets not overlook that we have only the PD's word that it was an attempted carjacking. And, keep in mind which PD we're talking about.

    Government killed a citizen under its protection. The closest possible scrutiny is needed.
    Excellent points.

    However, I tend to trust an off-duty cop much more so than one that is on duty.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Excellent points.

    However, I tend to trust an off-duty cop much more so than one that is on duty.
    Well, except he was trying to steal the cops car ... little bit more incentive for the cop? A little bit more emotional?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, except he was trying to steal the cops car ... little bit more incentive for the cop? A little bit more emotional?
    This is my point. At this time, we only have the cop's word for it that the wounded man was trying to steal his car. An unarmed wounded man.

    A cop who works LVPD.

    Government applied lethal force to a citizen under its protection. The closest possible scrutiny is needed.


    ETA: deleted references to the gunshot victim being deceased
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-19-2013 at 02:37 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    This is my point. At this time, we only have the cop's word for it that the deceased was trying to steal his car. An unarmed deceased.
    Interesting point .. maybe he was just getting a pack of smokes ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Interesting point .. maybe he was just getting a pack of smokes ...
    Or, maybe the car door jostled the cop's arm as he was dismounting, causing him to trigger a shot. (An oblique reference to the thoroughly disproven excuse given by a SWAT officer for "accidentally" shooting a non-violent, unarmed, arrestee in Northern VA in 2006. The police narrative was disproven by forensic evidence, to the point that when the plaintiffs made a graphics video showing how the cop had to be lying, the county settled the case for millions.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Additional info local news for whatever that is worth.

    The officer was with his family unloading packages when the suspect allegedly got in.
    He was warned to get out but when the suspect reached under the seat, the officer shot him, Fox5 reports.
    Police say the suspect then ran away but was detained by hotel security and then taken to University Medical Center for treatment.
    The officer was not injured in the incident.

    More info
    LAS VEGAS (FOX5) -

    Police said a man was shot in the wrist by an off-duty detective outside a casino on the Las Vegas Strip on Sunday night.
    The shooting happened about 9 a.m. at the Excalibur Hotel and Casino at 3850 S. Las Vegas Blvd.

    Las Vegas Metro Police Capt. Brett Primas said the detective was dropping off packages at the hotel when a man jumped into the driver's side of his vehicle. He said the detective then went over to the passenger's side of the car and ordered the man out. He said the man refused, and the detective identified himself as a police officer. He said the man then reached to his waistband and the detective fired a shot, hitting the man's wrist.

    Would the sequence of events be the carjacker jumped into the car, which still had the LEOs keys in it? Then the off duty LEO who also left his gun in the car between the seat and center console tells the carjacker to get out, then the off duty LEO pretends to reach for the keys to grab his own gun, then decided the carjacker was reaching under the LEOs car front seat for what? This does not make since to me.

    Why would the carjacker reach under the seat of a car he had never been in? There is another report where the off duty LEO said the carjacker was reaching for his waistband and that is when the LEO shot. I wonder if this is going to be the official version ?

    I believe the detective endangered himself, family, and public by not having the firearm on him and leaving the keys in the car. I never leave my vehicle without my keys or firearm, even if I am going to get right back in the vehicle.

    I believe had a non-LEO shot the carjacker he would have lost his firearm, been charged with discharging a firearm within the city limits, maybe charged with attempted murder.

    I am glad this thief crossed paths with a Metro officer hopefully removes him from the streets for a while.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 08-19-2013 at 01:54 AM.

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    Nice follow-up report, but we still don't have anything except the cop's assertion that it was an attempted carjacking.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Nice follow-up report, but we still don't have anything except the cop's assertion that it was an attempted carjacking.
    Actually, by all the versions of the story,
    It was NOT a car jacking, It was a car theft attempt!
    The shooting was not really justifiable!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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  18. #18
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    I'm just glad it was a Metro officer and he was not injured. I'm glad it wasn't me! I would hate to be put into a situation like this or any other that involved shooting somebody. I'm sure that a police officer has things a lot easier after a shooting vs a regular guy with a gun.

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    Don't be so quick to assume

    I know this person. He is a good guy. He is with the gang unit. He was meeting his family in the parking lot and they were greeting each other in the parking lot and getting things out of the car. I do not have any other details I'm willing to disclose but he was also my first sgt at my unit in the reserves. He is one of the good guys who truly cares about people.

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