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Thread: McGinn, WA CeaseFire to launch 'Gun Free Zone' program

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    McGinn, WA CeaseFire to launch 'Gun Free Zone' program

    http://www.king5.com/news/local/McGi...220128521.html
    http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...nessesxml.html

    tl;dr: New "Gun Free Zone" signs for stores; police enforcing trespass laws
    Last edited by zaltekk; 08-18-2013 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Added second source

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    Regular Member leitung's Avatar
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    Hope we can get a full list so I can be sure never to set foot there again.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceasefire
    ...“We know this won’t stop someone determined to cause violence, ..."


    The sign said Ceasefire and City of Seattle's program. Uh, is that legal?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    MAC702,

    I feel your pain, they admit openly that it won't stop someone intent on causing violence so the ONLY purpose is to disarm more victims for when the animals want to come slaughter everyone. Disgusting.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    MAC702,

    I feel your pain, they admit openly that it won't stop someone intent on causing violence so the ONLY purpose is to disarm more victims for when the animals want to come slaughter everyone. Disgusting.
    So mayor McCheese is openly conspiring with Cease Fire Wa to deny a constitutional right to citizens of Seattle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leitung View Post
    Hope we can get a full list so I can be sure never to set foot there again.
    The second article link that I just added to the original post lists some of the initial adopters:
    • Cafe Racer
    • Neumos
    • Oddfellows Cafe & Bar
    • Sweatbox Yoga
    • Cupcake Royale

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    So mayor McCheese is openly conspiring with Cease Fire Wa to deny a constitutional right to citizens of Seattle?
    Conspiring, yes, and probably illegally using the office of the mayor to do it. But to what Constitutional right are you referring? These restrictions are only going to be on private property, right?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    WA Guns
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    So, what force of law does such signage have in Washington exactly?

    If you carry despite such a sign, can police arrest you for trespass immediately, or only after you refuse to leave when an employee tells you to?

    As I understand the law, these signs change nothing.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    So, what force of law does such signage have in Washington exactly?

    If you carry despite such a sign, can police arrest you for trespass immediately, or only after you refuse to leave when an employee tells you to?

    As I understand the law, these signs change nothing.
    The signs have no legal effect.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    The signs have no legal effect.
    I'm not willing to go that far until I see case law.

    Rcw 9A.52.090

    (2) The premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises;
    This is part of a defense to being charged with trespass. If did not comply with all entry conditions then have you entered unlawfully? If the business owner communicates to you via sign that your gun is not welcome then I think entering with your gun is a textbook definition of trespass since you disregarded lawful conditions imposed on access to said property.

    Now it's unlikely a DA will ever charge that. Still just because we don't have a specific law empowering signs, the sign still would put a reasonable person on notice that the behavior in question is prohibited on their premises.

    Why would you want to spend money at such a place anyway?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    In my state, a sign does not give legal notice, unless on a government building. Hopefully it is the same for you guys.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I'm not willing to go that far until I see case law.

    Rcw 9A.52.090



    This is part of a defense to being charged with trespass. If did not comply with all entry conditions then have you entered unlawfully? If the business owner communicates to you via sign that your gun is not welcome then I think entering with your gun is a textbook definition of trespass since you disregarded lawful conditions imposed on access to said property.

    Now it's unlikely a DA will ever charge that. Still just because we don't have a specific law empowering signs, the sign still would put a reasonable person on notice that the behavior in question is prohibited on their premises.

    Why would you want to spend money at such a place anyway?
    Bravo! move to the head of the class on trespass law, as this is a genuine potential problem.

    ‘Gun free zone’bigotry project comes to Seattle

    http://www.examiner.com/article/gun-free-zone-effort-launched-seattle
    Last edited by Dave Workman; 08-19-2013 at 10:48 AM.

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    A quote from Ralph Fakeatelli " “We know this won’t stop someone determined to cause violence"

    Why waste the city money on something that won't work by there own admission. Lets hear it for mayor McCheese
    Last edited by 1911er; 08-19-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Conspiring, yes, and probably illegally using the office of the mayor to do it. But to what Constitutional right are you referring? These restrictions are only going to be on private property, right?
    No this is not for "Private Property", but for business. Also, there are no property rights in the US
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    At least crooks will know which places to rob. This is Seattle. Where it's better to wrap yourself in a warm blanket of utopian ideas instead of dealing with the harshness of reality.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Bravo, Capitol Hill.

    Not like I shop up there anyways, so it won't affect me outside of the emotional outrage. Anyone have any "No Guns = No $" biz cards to hand out?

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I did notice the mayor bypassed his own city council over this complete waste of money. If they are aware this "event" will make no difference in reducing crime or violence, and they just want to "start conversation", why the assault on the integrity of Legally Armed Citizens? If a personal vendetta, as with mr fascistelli, why is the mayor using public funds?
    More to ask would be, Why vote for this fool?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    The signs are already working. I know if I ever see a business anywhere that has one of these signs, or something similar they won't get my money.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    McGinn, WA CeaseFire to launch 'Gun Free Zone' program

    Draw a chalk outline body on the sidewalk in front of the business. And mix up some red food color and syrup to splash around.....
    Live Free or Die!

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    Or a sign stating

    CAUTION CRIME SCENE IN PROGRESS

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    No this is not for "Private Property", but for business.


    Businesses are private property. I can tell by your broken English that you may be from a country where this is not the case. If so, you are excused.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    No this is not for "Private Property", but for business. Also, there are no property rights in the US
    Is a business not private property in the state of Washington?

    Please don't confuse the issue with non-applicable absolute statements like "there are no property rights in the US." This is not the thread for whatever point you are trying to make with that.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-19-2013 at 02:05 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    For those who actually see the signs, please use the Friend or Foe site. I have found this a good way to check an area before I travel.

    http://friendorfoe.us/

    Welcome to the Friend or Foe web site. This site serves the gun owner community by listing the experiences people have while out and about carrying a firearm for self protection. Individuals across the country use the site to share experiences visiting various places of business for the benefit of the entire gun owner community. Gun owners who Open Carry are especially encouraged to share their experiences as they are obviously more inclined to get a genuine feel for whether gun owners are welcome at the establishment. Those who prefer to carry concealed can help by adding ratings for businesses that they know are friendly or unfriendly, and also by adding ratings for places that are posted with “no guns” or “no weapons” signage.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    I am going to sit here and laugh my ass off when these places get robbed. Seriously, what better way to announce your vulnerable than to put a big sign saying "PROUD GUN FREE ZONE!" You're literally asking to be robbed in that case!

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