Spokane Centennial Trail No Firearms

I was up in Spokane for the weekend, stayed near the river downtown and had a chance to walk parts of the Centennial trail a few times. I noticed a sign near Mission indicating firearms were prohibited.

I also see the same text on the web site for the Friends of the Centennial Trail:

http://spokanecentennialtrail.org/trail-rules-etiquette-safety/

I'm sure Spokane locals are aware of the signage and web site.

Is the trail part of the park system and preemption would apply? If so, is any action occurring to get the erroneous signage and web site information changed?

jhfc said:

I was up in Spokane for the weekend, stayed near the river downtown and had a chance to walk parts of the Centennial trail a few times. I noticed a sign near Mission indicating firearms were prohibited.

I also see the same text on the web site for the Friends of the Centennial Trail:

http://spokanecentennialtrail.org/trail-rules-etiquette-safety/

I'm sure Spokane locals are aware of the signage and web site.

Is the trail part of the park system and preemption would apply? If so, is any action occurring to get the erroneous signage and web site information changed?

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I called Chris Guidotti the head of Riverside State Park on this last week. They will be taping over the firearms part on the sign I believe he said there were 39 of them and they would get to them as soon as they could. He admitted he had proof read the signs and missed the firearms part and took full responsibility for the error. He also knew that they could not restrict firearms. I am hoping this was just an error and not deliberate for now I will take Mr. Guidotti at his word that it was in fact an error. The head Ranger, Audra Simms, for the Centennial Trail is well aware of the law as well and knows the sign is unenforceable.

I also have contacted the City of Liberty Lake on their no firearms in the parks and on the portion of the Centennial Trail that runs through Liberty Lake. I recieved a letter from the police Chief Brian Asmus stating that the city counsel folks were working on it and he sent me a internal memo instructing his officers that the city laws were unenforceable and to use the RCW for firearms violations. Chief Asmus will inform me when the city counsel gets the laws changed to comply with state law. I am thinking they will need a few weeks to run it through the system.

I figured you guys would be on the job.

Are they going to modify the web site as well? That wouldn't take too long.

jhfc said:

I figured you guys would be on the job.

Are they going to modify the web site as well? That wouldn't take too long.

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I have not emailed them yet but did plan on doing that today, I wanted to get the Park part of it done before I started on the friends of the trail.

Thanks for your efforts!

I was just curious where things stood.

jhfc said:

Thanks for your efforts!

I was just curious where things stood.

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Jeff doesn't mess around

jhfc said:

Thanks for your efforts!

I was just curious where things stood.

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I talked to the director of the Friends of the Centennial trail for 30 minutes today. She is quite upset that she just spent $7000 on new signs and they are wrong. They are a non profit that is doing the best they can with the funds they have. She really resisted and asked several time what my angle was to which I responded I want you to follow state law nothing more. I asked them to change their web site and never got a response. I am thinking I need to go to a board meeting.

Let me know when. Hopefully, I can go with you.

bob

Jeff Hayes said:

I talked to the director of the Friends of the Centennial trail for 30 minutes today. She is quite upset that she just spent $7000 on new signs and they are wrong. They are a non profit that is doing the best they can with the funds they have. She really resisted and asked several time what my angle was to which I responded I want you to follow state law nothing more. I asked them to change their web site and never got a response. I am thinking I need to go to a board meeting.

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A person who spends $7,000 of non-profit funding on inaccurate signs doesn't have a financing problem; they have an unqualified-for-the-job problem.

()pen(arry said:

A person who spends $7,000 of non-profit funding on inaccurate signs doesn't have a financing problem; they have an unqualified-for-the-job problem.

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I agree but in her defense she had Chris Guidotti head of Riverside State Park and Audra Simms Chief Park Ranger review the signs before they were printed up. It appears that she did her due diligence but was let down by others that knew better. specifically Audra Simms knew better because I talked to her shortly before she approved the signs. Either we have severe incompetence or we have state employees purposefully violating the law. I can not see how it could be anything different.

Jeff Hayes said:

I agree but in her defense she had Chris Guidotti head of Riverside State Park and Audra Simms Chief Park Ranger review the signs before they were printed up. It appears that she did her due diligence but was let down by others that knew better. specifically Audra Simms knew better because I talked to her shortly before she approved the signs. Either we have severe incompetence or we have state employees purposefully violating the law. I can not see how it could be anything different.

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Sure, I'm in total agreement. I also think multiple parties are at fault, here. She was let down by people who should have known better and did know better. She also demonstrated a lapse in judgement by not verifying the accuracy herself.

Oh well. Let's hope after the unpleasant shock of the realization she responds by fixing the error and learns the lesson. Regardless, much respect to you for being so proactive in all of this.

()pen(arry said:

Sure, I'm in total agreement. I also think multiple parties are at fault, here. She was let down by people who should have known better and did know better. She also demonstrated a lapse in judgement by not verifying the accuracy herself.

Oh well. Let's hope after the unpleasant shock of the realization she responds by fixing the error and learns the lesson. Regardless, much respect to you for being so proactive in all of this.

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I am going to give her a few days to think it over and I will follow up later this week.

()pen(arry said:

Sure, I'm in total agreement. I also think multiple parties are at fault, here. She was let down by people who should have known better and did know better. She also demonstrated a lapse in judgement by not verifying the accuracy herself.

Oh well. Let's hope after the unpleasant shock of the realization she responds by fixing the error and learns the lesson. Regardless, much respect to you for being so proactive in all of this.

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I don't even care about signs anymore, so many places have no guns signs that are not legally enforceable and all (well majority) the cops seem to know that the signs are not enforceable. everytime i've tried contacting parks officials about signs all I get are "we know the state law, the ordinance has already been repealed, this isn't my job, we don't have money to replace the signs" my favorite was a Snoho County parks receptionist who told me "the signs deter criminals while not effecting law abiding gun owners" (well that's a new one) I don't even care about signs anymore, If I can legally carry while hiking, and on a hike I'm carrying and I see an unenforceable sign I walk on right past it.

That is all well and good Eric, but, how about the many citizens that do carry and are unaware that the signs are wrong?
They leave their firearm in the car and then the emergency arises and they are defensively naked.
Who has been negligent in helping to protect the rights and ability to defend? More than the municipalities I would surmise.

Trigger Dr said:

That is all well and good Eric, but, how about the many citizens that do carry and are unaware that the signs are wrong?
They leave their firearm in the car and then the emergency arises and they are defensively naked.
Who has been negligent in helping to protect the rights and ability to defend? More than the municipalities I would surmise.

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But no emergency could arise. Didn't you see the part where she said the signs deter criminals?:banghead:

trigger dr said:

that is all well and good eric, but, how about the many citizens that do carry and are unaware that the signs are wrong?
They leave their firearm in the car and then the emergency arises and they are defensively naked.
Who has been negligent in helping to protect the rights and ability to defend? More than the municipalities i would surmise.

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^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

Jeff Hayes said:

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

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Yup.

As an out of town visitor and moderately informed I wasn't sure of the legality of carrying on this particular trail. I wasn't sure if the trail was part of the parks system or some other entity that could bar firearms on their property.

Buy tape the same color as the sign and put over the offending words.


As to EMN not caring.... wrong!

Battling what I have referred to for years as "serial misinformation" is what OCDO is all about. This is a long term education campaign and this is an important element of our struggle for acceptance.

gogodawgs said:

Buy tape the same color as the sign and put over the offending words.


As to EMN not caring.... wrong!

Battling what I have referred to for years as "serial misinformation" is what OCDO is all about. This is a long term education campaign and this is an important element of our struggle for acceptance.

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and that's great that Jeff and yourself have been successful, the last couple times I've tried calling over signs I get connected to some receptionist or clerk who couldn't care less and puts out some BS or tells me to talk to the department (fill in job title here) and the <fill in title here> usually has an allergic reaction to the answering machine. maybe you live in counties where people are easier to get ahold of. the last time I tried was Snohomish county several years ago, and I gave up on it because the couple calls i made ended up being transferred to answering machines and never returned.....

Trigger Dr said:

That is all well and good Eric, but, how about the many citizens that do carry and are unaware that the signs are wrong?
They leave their firearm in the car and then the emergency arises and they are defensively naked.
Who has been negligent in helping to protect the rights and ability to defend? More than the municipalities I would surmise.

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it's your responsibility to know the law, and the laws in Washington are not that complex or contradictory, this isn't California where the section on open carry alone is longer then the entire criminal code of Washington....

people who carry guns and don't know the carry laws have no excuse other then willful ignorance, the RCW is online for free, the RCW is carried in entirety at every public library I've ever been to, it's carried, annotated with case law records available at just about every county courthouse in this state. I've known most of the laws since I was 17. people who are into guns and don't know the laws do not get my sympathy, I can think of very few places with clearer laws that are more accessible to the general public then this state.....

***EDIT

I know gogo has brought up "public education on gun laws"

I understand that point, we should tell people new to guns a summary and inform them where to look, but in the end, when you choose to carry a piece, you assume responsibility for knowing. waiting til something happens then complaining "well EMNofSeattle, Trigger Dr, DEROS72, and Gogodawgs told me on an internet forum the law was....." won't suffice. every needs to look at the law and verify it themselves, just like when I go to the gun store and ask to see a gun, I may trust that it's unloaded on the rack, but I'll still verify that myself before checking it...