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Thread: Sante-Cali-Gon?

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    Sante-Cali-Gon?

    Hello Everyone:

    I have been looking this site over for a while now and finally joined up. Wanted to welcome myself to everyone. I am recently new to OC and done a little in Independence. I carry a Ruger LCR .357 with a Safariland holster.

    I am planning on OCing at the square during Sante-Cali-Gon days, and was wonder if anyone else was going to as well. If there are a few people that will be, maybe have a time and place to have a meet and greet sort of speak. Just a thought. Have a great day everyone!!!!

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    You cannot open carry at Santa-Cali-Gon....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbab View Post
    Hello Everyone:

    I have been looking this site over for a while now and finally joined up. Wanted to welcome myself to everyone. I am recently new to OC and done a little in Independence. I carry a Ruger LCR .357 with a Safariland holster.

    I am planning on OCing at the square during Sante-Cali-Gon days, and was wonder if anyone else was going to as well. If there are a few people that will be, maybe have a time and place to have a meet and greet sort of speak. Just a thought. Have a great day everyone!!!!
    Welcome to the forums and to OCing in general. Unfortunately we still have to pick and choose when and where to OC for now. But as others become more aware and involved, this is sure to change.

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    Welcome to the forum. Not sure if your town is like mine, but in mine the city square is considered a city park and can't OC on city property. Might want to double check it so that you don't get in trouble.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Generally the city festivals in Jackson County (SantaCaliGon, Fall Fun Fest, Octoberfest) all have signs posted at each of the "entrances" saying NO FIREARMS - CONCEALED OR OTHERWISE. Part of the reason I quit attending them several years ago. I live in Independence as well and the crowds at SantaCaliGon have gone completely to hell. You have your thugs, your gang banger wannabes, a LOT of pure white trash, and the Meth Tweekers, especially after the sun goes down.
    Fall Fun Fest in Blue Springs and OctoberFest in Lees Summit generally get a slightly more upscale crowd. But again, all the festivals are no carry zones. Lots of folks maintain that concealed means concealed, but there's little tolerance for infractions from the local PD during the festival if you're outed.

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    Not saying I don't believe you guys but what is the ordinance under? Like I said I am new and done my fair share of research. I don't know everything, and refuse to be ignorant of laws like I was before. The more knowledge shared the better off we will all be in the end. Again thanks for informing me.

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    Go to your city website and looking for City Codes or City Ordnance, once you find it try looking for a section labeled offenses and punishments or something along those lines. That is where I have found all my information at for the towns that I carry in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om5hipp View Post
    Go to your city website and looking for City Codes or City Ordnance, once you find it try looking for a section labeled offenses and punishments or something along those lines. That is where I have found all my information at for the towns that I carry in.
    Thanks.

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    Don't mention it. I checked the websites and then went down to the city halls personally and talked to the people there just to make sure nothing had changed and never got posted. Not saying you have to, but it is what I did and even managed to educate a few of the people on their own rules. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JEStucker View Post
    Generally the city festivals in Jackson County (SantaCaliGon, Fall Fun Fest, Octoberfest) all have signs posted at each of the "entrances" saying NO FIREARMS - CONCEALED OR OTHERWISE. Part of the reason I quit attending them several years ago. I live in Independence as well and the crowds at SantaCaliGon have gone completely to hell. You have your thugs, your gang banger wannabes, a LOT of pure white trash, and the Meth Tweekers, especially after the sun goes down.
    Fall Fun Fest in Blue Springs and OctoberFest in Lees Summit generally get a slightly more upscale crowd. But again, all the festivals are no carry zones. Lots of folks maintain that concealed means concealed, but there's little tolerance for infractions from the local PD during the festival if you're outed.
    So what'll they do? Tell you to leave? Ooh scary. By law, it's not a crime to carry where posted you can't carry or even listed in the ccw statute. Carrying at a Chiefs game, for instance (not that you'll make it in), isn't unlawful unless you refuse to leave if asked. Only then can you get one of those ccw citations.

    Edit: didn't mean for that to sound so smartass-y. But hopefully you get my point
    Last edited by bigb360; 08-21-2013 at 06:13 PM.

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    If it is posted that there are no firearms don't go there with a firearm, why would you want to give people a reason. Personally I won't carry where they say not to because I don't want to be the reason my city decides to update their codes. We are trying to show people that we are normal people who abide the law and still exercise our rights.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigb360 View Post
    So what'll they do? Tell you to leave? Ooh scary. By law, it's not a crime to carry where posted you can't carry or even listed in the ccw statute. Carrying at a Chiefs game, for instance (not that you'll make it in), isn't unlawful unless you refuse to leave if asked. Only then can you get one of those ccw citations.

    Edit: didn't mean for that to sound so smartass-y. But hopefully you get my point
    No, I get your point entirely, but I'm just restating that when the cops are in a higher state of alert (Street Festival, Football Game, etc.) their idea of "asking you to leave" usually involves a few hours of being detained and disarmed. Even if they file no charges, usually no one bothers calling them on it, unless someone's got deep enough pockets to really pursue the matter.

    I'll just leave it at "They don't want me and my firearm, they don't want my money either" and don't go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JEStucker View Post
    No, I get your point entirely, but I'm just restating that when the cops are in a higher state of alert (Street Festival, Football Game, etc.) their idea of "asking you to leave" usually involves a few hours of being detained and disarmed. Even if they file no charges, usually no one bothers calling them on it, unless someone's got deep enough pockets to really pursue the matter.

    I'll just leave it at "They don't want me and my firearm, they don't want my money either" and don't go.
    I see. Yes that makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JEStucker View Post
    Generally the city festivals in Jackson County (SantaCaliGon, Fall Fun Fest, Octoberfest) all have signs posted at each of the "entrances" saying NO FIREARMS - CONCEALED OR OTHERWISE. Part of the reason I quit attending them several years ago. I live in Independence as well and the crowds at SantaCaliGon have gone completely to hell. You have your thugs, your gang banger wannabes, a LOT of pure white trash, and the Meth Tweekers, especially after the sun goes down.
    Fall Fun Fest in Blue Springs and OctoberFest in Lees Summit generally get a slightly more upscale crowd. But again, all the festivals are no carry zones. Lots of folks maintain that concealed means concealed, but there's little tolerance for infractions from the local PD during the festival if you're outed.
    SAY WHAT........ At festivals in Jackson county, merely posting a sign on a barracade, pole, wall, doesn't mean anything. To be a legal posting the event would need to be totally fenced or enclosed with a posting at every entrance. People are sheep and usually obey any sign unless they know its bogus,most don't, I have Oc'ed at Old Time days in Lees summit every year, walking right by the signs with my family, only been approached by Lees Summits finest once 4 years ago.....at the end I continued about my business, with my firearm..... A few years ago' we were wanting to set up a booth at Santa-calagon to promote OC. I called the woman in charge of renting spaces and everything was going fine until I mentioned a 2nd. Amend group promoting firearm safety . She told me that it wasn't legal to carry any firearm during the event. I then informed her that Independence had no such ordinance against OC or CCW and it violated no Missouri statute' She paused then told me that that didn't matter that during the event the city owns the streets and can do what they wish' no OC or CCW allowed. I then asked her If I am understanding her correctly, that it was a public event, on public streets, free of charge, not fenced in or enclosed....and city ordinances and Missouri statutes are put on hold....and the city does what it wants.....She told me that that was correct......I told her that that was illegal and the city couldn't do that, she told me that she thought I was incorrect' but either way, that's what happens......needless to say I wasnt allowed to rent booth space..
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg150 View Post
    SAY WHAT........ At festivals in Jackson county, merely posting a sign on a barracade, pole, wall, doesn't mean anything. To be a legal posting the event would need to be totally fenced or enclosed with a posting at every entrance. People are sheep and usually obey any sign unless they know its bogus,most don't, I have Oc'ed at Old Time days in Lees summit every year, walking right by the signs with my family, only been approached by Lees Summits finest once 4 years ago.....at the end I continued about my business, with my firearm..... A few years ago' we were wanting to set up a booth at Santa-calagon to promote OC. I called the woman in charge of renting spaces and everything was going fine until I mentioned a 2nd. Amend group promoting firearm safety . She told me that it wasn't legal to carry any firearm during the event. I then informed her that Independence had no such ordinance against OC or CCW and it violated no Missouri statute' She paused then told me that that didn't matter that during the event the city owns the streets and can do what they wish' no OC or CCW allowed. I then asked her If I am understanding her correctly, that it was a public event, on public streets, free of charge, not fenced in or enclosed....and city ordinances and Missouri statutes are put on hold....and the city does what it wants.....She told me that that was correct......I told her that that was illegal and the city couldn't do that, she told me that she thought I was incorrect' but either way, that's what happens......needless to say I wasnt allowed to rent booth space..
    And I understand this completely, their less than legal signage still conveys their intent... my gun and my money stay home, because obviously we aren't welcome... All I can suggest is maybe take a stack of "No guns = No Money" cards and hand them out to the vendors. Maybe the cities will start changing their tunes if the vendors stop showing up?

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEStucker View Post
    And I understand this completely, their less than legal signage still conveys their intent... my gun and my money stay home, because obviously we aren't welcome... All I can suggest is maybe take a stack of "No guns = No Money" cards and hand them out to the vendors. Maybe the cities will start changing their tunes if the vendors stop showing up?
    We are in TOTAL agreement......but my point is that their intent... is unlawful.....they cannot OWN the public streets for any event, and put all city ordinances and Missouri statutes on hold. Passing out cards for OC and or No Guns= No Money, is an excellent idea. I have pondered this myself the last couple years.....All though I have OC at Lees Summit's activities and have only been approached the first time and year I did it, if there were to be cards passed out, I'm thinking the results may be better if there we a herd of properly attired, well groomed, well acting, properly holstered, OCarrying individuals, handing out cards. I know from personal experience that when a MWAG call goes in and LEO's respond,their attitude, demeanor and the way the approach the MGAG will be different if there is 1 person as apposed to 12. Example.....we were OC at one of our get togethers in Liberty, MWAG call goes out.....the LEO's arrive a couple of squad cars and a paddy wagon, we are all sitting, eating, visiting...... Two LEO's walk in and we hear one say,WHERES THE MAN WITH A GUN....they look at us and the other one says THEY ALL GOT GUNS... They then with draw and start discussing what to do next.....The video is posted on youtube...When I first started OC 5 or so years ago in Lees Summit, I was stopped ALOT, im thinking I was stopped by every officer I came across, until they were educated and enformed on OC. KNOCK ON WOOD..... I have talked to the police chief, he happened to be my neighbor for awhile, and he was aware as all his officers were on OC and how its becoming more popular,he and the officers I have encounter in recent times have been no issues. We have exchanged hellos, chatted, talked about what we are carrying ect...all positive....that's not to say the next time one sees me, it wont be positive, im just saying that now they know more about OC than they did before.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    If you go to the web site for sante cali gon the only restriction posted is on pets says nothing about firearms what so ever if you to the web site than go to information it lists the restrictions. Where can I get some of these no gun no money cards you all are talking about.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRuch2010 View Post
    If you go to the web site for sante cali gon the only restriction posted is on pets says nothing about firearms what so ever if you to the web site than go to information it lists the restrictions. Where can I get some of these no gun no money cards you all are talking about.
    http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/

    They're all on there, and available as a .pdf so you can download them to a flash drive and have your local kinkos print them if you don't have the skills/hardware to do it yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg150 View Post
    We are in TOTAL agreement......but my point is that their intent... is unlawful.....they cannot OWN the public streets for any event, and put all city ordinances and Missouri statutes on hold. Passing out cards for OC and or No Guns= No Money, is an excellent idea. I have pondered this myself the last couple years.....All though I have OC at Lees Summit's activities and have only been approached the first time and year I did it, if there were to be cards passed out, I'm thinking the results may be better if there we a herd of properly attired, well groomed, well acting, properly holstered, OCarrying individuals, handing out cards. I know from personal experience that when a MWAG call goes in and LEO's respond,their attitude, demeanor and the way the approach the MGAG will be different if there is 1 person as apposed to 12. Example.....we were OC at one of our get togethers in Liberty, MWAG call goes out.....the LEO's arrive a couple of squad cars and a paddy wagon, we are all sitting, eating, visiting...... Two LEO's walk in and we hear one say,WHERES THE MAN WITH A GUN....they look at us and the other one says THEY ALL GOT GUNS... They then with draw and start discussing what to do next.....The video is posted on youtube...When I first started OC 5 or so years ago in Lees Summit, I was stopped ALOT, im thinking I was stopped by every officer I came across, until they were educated and enformed on OC. KNOCK ON WOOD..... I have talked to the police chief, he happened to be my neighbor for awhile, and he was aware as all his officers were on OC and how its becoming more popular,he and the officers I have encounter in recent times have been no issues. We have exchanged hellos, chatted, talked about what we are carrying ect...all positive....that's not to say the next time one sees me, it wont be positive, im just saying that now they know more about OC than they did before.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ
    This was one of the best OC videos ever on You Tube. It was so good it made me spend a weekend up there with you guys and gals just to meet-up! The west side of Missouri is very OC friendly.
    I wear your T-shirt a lot too! After Sept. 11th (The victory day), I'll have to fins another day to get up your way, we can raise a mug of root beer together!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Re: Sante-Cali-Gon?

    The young gentleman that is overly talkative is my son. I love all of the hate he gets from the comments. I can't wait to let him read them some day.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    The young gentleman that is overly talkative is my son. I love all of the hate he gets from the comments. I can't wait to let him read them some day.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
    I just consider the sources on stuff like that...
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Re: Sante-Cali-Gon?

    I've ridden in cars for enough hours with you for you to know better that I'm bothered in the slightest by the comments. I think they're hilarious. If I didn't, I would not own up to them ;-)

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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    I've done some digging and this is what found.

    SEC. 12.03.004. FIREARMS IN CITY BUILDINGS.
    A. No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Director of Revenue
    under Section 571.094 RSMo. or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed
    firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that
    endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry a concealed firearm or to openly carry a firearm in any building
    or portion of a building or any park owned, leased or controlled by the City.

    B. Signs shall be posted at each entrance of a building entirely owned, leased or controlled by the City
    and at park entrances stating that entry while carrying firearms is prohibited. Where the City owns, leased
    or controls only a portion of a building, signs shall be posted at each entrance to that portion of a the
    building stating that carrying of firearms is prohibited.

    C. This section shall not apply to buildings owned by the City but leased in their entirety to a non-public
    entity or operated by a management company under contract with the City, unless said entity or
    management company chooses to prohibit firearms and posts signs at the entrance of the building stating
    that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.


    Definition of a building per SEC. 4.01.002. DEFINITIONS:

    BUILDING means an enclosed structure anchored to a permanent foundation and having exterior or
    party walls and a roof, designed for the shelter of persons, animals, or property. When divided by other
    than common or contiguous walls, each portion or section of such building shall be regarded as a separate
    building.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbab View Post
    I've done some digging and this is what found.

    SEC. 12.03.004. FIREARMS IN CITY BUILDINGS.
    A. No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Director of Revenue
    under Section 571.094 RSMo. or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed
    firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that
    endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry a concealed firearm or to openly carry a firearm in any building
    or portion of a building or any park owned, leased or controlled by the City.

    B. Signs shall be posted at each entrance of a building entirely owned, leased or controlled by the City
    and at park entrances stating that entry while carrying firearms is prohibited. Where the City owns, leased
    or controls only a portion of a building, signs shall be posted at each entrance to that portion of a the
    building stating that carrying of firearms is prohibited.

    C. This section shall not apply to buildings owned by the City but leased in their entirety to a non-public
    entity or operated by a management company under contract with the City, unless said entity or
    management company chooses to prohibit firearms and posts signs at the entrance of the building stating
    that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.


    Definition of a building per SEC. 4.01.002. DEFINITIONS:

    BUILDING means an enclosed structure anchored to a permanent foundation and having exterior or
    party walls and a roof, designed for the shelter of persons, animals, or property. When divided by other
    than common or contiguous walls, each portion or section of such building shall be regarded as a separate
    building.
    SO.... its not a building, its not a park.....the streets are public, not owned by the city.....The city can post signs anywhere they want, that doesn't make them legal or correct.... and most would or will ever question that fact. To Sheeple ignorance can be bliss..
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

  25. #25
    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    All I know is, right or wrong, I don't have the money to hire a lawyer to fight the city... I'll just stay home.

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