St. Louis OC + a few other questions about MO OC

BB62 · Aug 21, 2013

A few question if I may...

What are the laws in St. Louis and the surrounding area with regard to OC?

Does Missouri have laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that are used to threatened charges against OCers?

Does Missouri have an OC organization whom I might contact when I visit?

Are there any ongoing efforts to litigate MO's supposed RKBA? I ask this based on what I read on OCDO's MO page - that is, in MO one has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but it doesn't apply to CC, and OC can be prohibited by localities: bottom line, MO actually has NO RKBA.

Thanks kindly.

Superlite27 · Aug 21, 2013

Which municipalities are you speaking of when you say, "St. Louis and the surrounding area"? Because, out of the 70+ suburbs, 9 or 10 will arrest you for OC, the majority will simply ask for your permit, and many won't care because it's perfectly legal without a permit.

So, I could say you're good to go, or I could say you'll get thrown in the slammer and I would be right in both instances........

It depends on what municipality of St. Louis you are in.

BTW: Missouri recognizes ALL states' permits, and our permit is recognized by more states than any other, so as far as RKBA, we rank about 10th in the nation. Considering that you can even be intoxicated and remain lawfully armed here, NOBODY needs a permit to carry in any manner they wish while in their vehicle, and numerous other gun friendly laws.....

I would say our RKBA is much better than Ohio's even.

Unless you're specifically referring to OC. Then, only about 90% of Missouri is better than Ohio.

Oramac · Aug 21, 2013

superlite27 said:
which municipalities are you speaking of when you say, "st. Louis and the surrounding area"? Because, out of the 70+ suburbs, 9 or 10 will arrest you for oc, the majority will simply ask for your permit, and many won't care because it's perfectly legal without a permit.

So, i could say you're good to go, or i could say you'll get thrown in the slammer and i would be right in both instances........

It depends on what municipality of st. Louis you are in.

Btw: Missouri recognizes all states' permits, and our permit is recognized by more states than any other, so as far as rkba, we rank about 10th in the nation. Considering that you can even be intoxicated and remain lawfully armed here, nobody needs a permit to carry in any manner they wish while in their vehicle, and numerous other gun friendly laws.....

I would say our rkba is much better than ohio's even.

Unless you're specifically referring to oc. Then, only about 90% of missouri is better than ohio.

qft.

Griz · Aug 21, 2013

St. Louis City is absolutely off limits to open carry. CC is OK.

See above posts for St. Louis County and the rest of Missouri's minor townships / municipalities.

OC for ME · Aug 23, 2013

In MO you can "briefly" openly display (OC in a holster if you will) your handgun and not get dinged by a cop, anywhere in MO. Because, it is not OCing to open your coat to get your cheaters out to read your receipt when fueling your vehicle. Benn there done that. We do not have any "printing" laws, meaning, that printing is not OC. If it is covered you are CCing no matter how poorly you are concealing.....it's a intent thing.

Got this little gem last year.

RSMo 571.037. Any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement, and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, may briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self defense.

"Car carry", though it likely applies to any mode of transportation. A cop would have to determine intent to comply with the law if there is no way to make a weapon not readily accessible.....think four-wheeler, on a county road, on the way to or from hunting.

RSMo 571-030.3. Subdivisions (1 - concealed carry), (5 - in your cups), (8 - church), and (10 - school property) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible (a cop gets to define "readily accessible" as we all know).

Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.

Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event

Some cops, here in MO, spout the mantra "concealed means concealed." I've met a few. They are staunch anti-OC cops but they are not anti-citizen being armed. The vast vast majority of cops in MO are regular citizens who are of the mind; "you don't draw yours, and I'll not draw mine." They have better things to do than hassle OCers.....like, chatting it up on the cell phone while driving, Krispy Kreme runs, free coffee at the QT, checking IDs at the county fair beer tent.....stuff like that.

We have a whole bunch of good cops in MO in my opinion.

BB62 · Aug 23, 2013

What about laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that may be used to threatened charges against OCers?

Oramac · Aug 23, 2013

BB62 said:
What about laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that may be used to threatened charges against OCers?

I've never heard of or seen any. Doesn't mean there isn't some city somewhere that might have it on the books though. As OC for ME said, for the most part, the cops in MO are pretty good about it. The screwy part is figuring out which cities are ok. Around StL the only ones I know of OC being legal are O'Fallon (MO side), Wentzville, Lake St Louis, and Troy. AFAIK all of them require a CC permit to OC. But I haven't lived in any of those for about 9 months, so it could have changed too.

OC for ME · Aug 23, 2013

BB62 said:
What about laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that may be used to threatened charges against OCers?

Whatever it is labled a thug cop will try to pin it on you if he don't like you OCing where OC is not made unlawful.

SECTION 210.210: PEACE DISTURBANCE

A person commits the offense of peace disturbance if:

1. He/she unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:
a. Loud noise;
b. Offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to a specific individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient;
c. Threatening to commit a felonious act against any person under circumstances which are likely to cause a reasonable person to fear that such threat may be carried out;
d. Fighting; or
e. Creating a noxious and offensive odor.

2. He/she is in a public place or on private property of another without consent and purposely causes inconvenience to another person or persons by unreasonably and physically obstructing:

a. Vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
b. The free ingress or egress to or from a public or private place.

SECTION 210.215: PRIVATE PEACE DISTURBANCE

A person commits the offense of private peace disturbance if he/she is on private property and unreasonably and purposely causes alarm to another person or persons on the same premises by:

1. Threatening to commit a crime or offense against any person; or
2. Fighting.

SECTION 210.220: PEACE DISTURBANCE DEFINITIONS

For the purposes of Sections 210.210 and 210.215, the following words shall have the meanings set out herein:

PRIVATE PROPERTY: Any place which at the time is not open to the public. It includes property which is owned publicly or privately.
PROPERTY OF ANOTHER: Any property in which the actor does not have a possessory interest.
PUBLIC PLACE: Any place which at the time is open to the public. It includes property which is owned publicly or privately.

If a building or structure is divided into separately occupied units, such units are separate premises.

SECTION 210.223: RESERVED

Editor's Note--Ord. no. 3015 §1, adopted August 26, 2009, repealed section 210.223 "funeral protests prohibited, when--funeral defined" in its entirety.

SECTION 210.225: UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY

A person commits the offense of unlawful assembly if he/she knowingly assembles with six (6) or more other persons and agrees with such persons to violate any of the criminal laws of this State or of the United States with force or violence.

From my little town's municipal code. I'm confident that the cops in MO would comport themselves with the letter and intent of the codes/laws.

See RSMo 574-010 for the state statute.

mspgunner · Aug 23, 2013

BB62 said:
What about laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that may be used to threatened charges against OCers?

If you carry a holstered firearm those charges are BS and would never hold up because you are enghaging in a "legal activity". IMHO and IANAA.

gotya · Aug 24, 2013

Mo OC Law

BB62 said:
A few question if I may...

What are the laws in St. Louis and the surrounding area with regard to OC?

Does Missouri have laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that are used to threatened charges against OCers?

Does Missouri have an OC organization whom I might contact when I visit?

Are there any ongoing efforts to litigate MO's supposed RKBA? I ask this based on what I read on OCDO's MO page - that is, in MO one has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but it doesn't apply to CC, and OC can be prohibited by localities: bottom line, MO actually has NO RKBA.

Thanks kindly.

On Sept. 11 2013 they are having a rally on the front lawn of the stste capital house in Jefferson City.
We are trying to get a OC law passed.

So come on down>

mspgunner · Aug 24, 2013

gotya said:
On Sept. 11 2013 they are having a rally on the front lawn of the stste capital house in Jefferson City.
We are trying to get a OC law passed.

So come on down>

Originally Posted by BB62

A few question if I may...

What are the laws in St. Louis and the surrounding area with regard to OC?

Does Missouri have laws such as "disorderly conduct" or "inducing panic" that are used to threatened charges against OCers?

Does Missouri have an OC organization whom I might contact when I visit?

Are there any ongoing efforts to litigate MO's supposed RKBA? I ask this based on what I read on OCDO's MO page - that is, in MO one has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but it doesn't apply to CC, and OC can be prohibited by localities: bottom line, MO actually has NO RKBA.

Thanks kindly"
-------------------------------------------

OC is legal in Missouri (Art.1 Sec.23 of the Missouri Constitution.) except where prohibited or restricted by municipal laws. We do not have preemption for OC but we do have preemption State wide for CCW.
The HB436 would give State wide OC with a CCW endorsement, municipal laws would be void with this. While we have made progress it has been step by step. Next year... another step!
You will need to read HB436 to get the specifics. OC is legal, an arrest for "panic and such", would IMHO not hold water because OC is legal as long as you meet the requirements of law. Just like if you wear a red shirt, it's legal, if someone has a panc attack, it's their problem, not yours.... Iam not lawyer and don't even play one on TV, but I know a litle bit about OC rights in Missouri.
A LEO can arrest you for anything, that doesn't make it right or legal... Then you get a lawyer and make them pay for being stupid! OCers win every time when they are right. Usual judgements $15 - 20K.

BB62 · Aug 26, 2013

gotya said:
On Sept. 11 2013 they are having a rally on the front lawn of the stste capital house in Jefferson City.
We are trying to get a OC law passed.

So come on down>

I wish I could, but I won't be back in MO until the next weekend! :-(

St. Louis OC + a few other questions about MO OC

BB62

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Superlite27

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Oramac

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Griz

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OC for ME

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BB62

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Oramac

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OC for ME

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mspgunner

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gotya

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mspgunner

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BB62

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