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Thread: First Time OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member arcaneadam's Avatar
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    First Time OC

    So yesterday I went out and about for the first time open carrying. I grew up in Kalifornia, where carrying of any sort is rare and recently OC has been outlawed. I joined the Army young and spent ten years in the south before going back to Kali a few years ago, so guns have been a normal part of my life. I hated living in CA as an adult. I was never aware, as a kid, of all the ridiculous laws (guns and others) the state has. So earlier this year the wife and I moved the family to NID.

    It's been great. We've been here a few months and after getting settled in we went to the Kootenai Sheriff's Office a couple weeks ago to apply for our CCW's. After getting a new handgun the other day I decided not to wait and start OC'ing.

    So yesterday I strapped on my new XD and headed out to Wally World in Post Falls with my son. I think I got a few looks in the check out line, but other then that nothing. I also wore it out later that night when my wife and went out to eat for date night. Other then the conversations her and I had about it no one said anything. It is such a drastic change from the communist state I grew up in. Even living in a solidly red district north of LA, people there are just too timid and scared. There was one guy who used to OC religiously in my town (before it was banned) and he was always getting hassled by the LASD.

    I honestly think around here people either don't notice or just don't care because they are all familiar enough with firearms to not be scared.

    It was a great experience and I think even once I get my CCW I may still carry OC. Honestly I like the idea of carrying OC, or at least OWB with just a shirt semi covering, because it allows for a more full size pistol. I think the only thing I worried about was carrying in the car because state law is a bit vague on what actually constitutes being openly visible when in a car. I also worried a little that my shirt would accidentally end up covering it up. Both are why I'll be glad when my CCW comes in, so that neither situation would be reason for concern.

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Welcome to the OC world and this forum!

    I'm glad you had a positive experience carrying. The people here have a wealth of information, so don't be shy about asking questions!

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    Welcome! Let us know if you make it this direction, Boise area!
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Welcome to the great North West, where the are are a lot more real Americans. Thank you for your service, I did 21 years in the Army and retired out of Fort Lewis, WA. Keep the faith, and carry on.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Welcome to Idaho, my wife is from Spokane and I was stationed at Fairchild AFB from 91-97. We live south of Boise now but get up north frequently. My only concern is (and we have a lot here in Boise) all the Kalifornia's moving here. I hope they don't screw up our little red state like they did Kalifornia. We have stickers on cars down here that say "Blue Girl/Red State".

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    Hello and welcome to OCDO and the Gold Star State of Idaho, Here is what the Idaho Statutes say about open carrying a firearm in a car.

    (18-3302)

    (9) While in any motor vehicle, inside the limits or confines of any city, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his person without a license to carry a concealed weapon. This shall not apply to any firearm located in plain view whether it is loaded or unloaded. A firearm may be concealed legally in a motor vehicle so long as the weapon is disassembled or unloaded.

    Welcome again, Carry On and be safe

  7. #7
    Regular Member arcaneadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Gardner View Post
    Hello and welcome to OCDO and the Gold Star State of Idaho, Here is what the Idaho Statutes say about open carrying a firearm in a car.

    (18-3302)

    (9) While in any motor vehicle, inside the limits or confines of any city, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his person without a license to carry a concealed weapon. This shall not apply to any firearm located in plain view whether it is loaded or unloaded. A firearm may be concealed legally in a motor vehicle so long as the weapon is disassembled or unloaded.

    Welcome again, Carry On and be safe
    Yeah, I think I have Title 18 chapter 33 practically memorized at this point. The problem is I'm not a lawyer/judge so what defines "plain view" is a bit murky to me. Obviously the safest bet is on the passenger seat, dashboard, console, etc. But I'm not sure how plain view applies to holstered, but openly carried firearms since when you sit in a car it's not concealed, but not plain view either...? Kind of a grey area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneadam View Post
    Yeah, I think I have Title 18 chapter 33 practically memorized at this point. The problem is I'm not a lawyer/judge so what defines "plain view" is a bit murky to me. Obviously the safest bet is on the passenger seat, dashboard, console, etc. But I'm not sure how plain view applies to holstered, but openly carried firearms since when you sit in a car it's not concealed, but not plain view either...? Kind of a grey area.
    NOTE: This is not legal advice, just commentary. The reader is responsible to validate any and/or all of this commentary and is encouraged to do so with a practicing Idaho attorney.


    In regards to Idaho Code 18-3302(9), it seems to be only dealing with "inside the city limits," not outside. Thus, you will need to have a weapon in "plain view" when in city limits (now ya know why City Limits signs are posted, among other reasons, anyway...).

    "Plain view" = think of where the LEO will be standing/approaching (when U R pulled over). They stand behind you at your 7 or 8 o'clock. Or, at your 3 o'clock on highways. If they can't see your weapon from either spot, this means they would need to "reposition" themselves to a vantage point where they could then see the weapon.

    It seems that a holstered weapon at your 8 or 9 o'clock for left or 3 or 4 o'clock for right would not be "in plain view". Even at your 11, 12 or 1 o'clock may not be accepted as "plain view" if the LEO is at your 8 o'clock.

    Several Idaho cases bear upon I.C. 18-3302(9): State v. McNary (1979), State v. Button (2001), and State v. Veneroso (2003). There may be others, too.

    From State v. Veneroso (2003):
    The general test of concealment is whether a weapon is so carried that it is not discernible by ordinary observation. State v. McNary, 100 Idaho 244, 247, 596 P.2d 417, 420 (1979). In State v. Button, 136 Idaho 526, 37 P.3d 23 (Ct.App.2001), a driver was stopped for fictitious display of license plates. The officer approached the driver's side of the vehicle, scanned the interior, and observed no weapons present. However, when asked about weapons, the driver informed the officer of a handgun located between the front seats and under a purse. The officer moved to the passenger's side and, looking through the window, spotted approximately two inches of the butt of a handgun between the seats. The driver was arrested for possession of a concealed weapon. A further search revealed possession of drugs. The driver moved to suppress the evidence found as a result of the arrest, arguing that because the handgun was visible to the officer, it was not concealed. The Court concluded that, because the weapon remained concealed until the officer moved to a particular vantage point, the weapon was not discernible by ordinary observation. The Court held that the district court did not err when it denied the driver's motion to suppress.

    "...to a particular vantage point" is key, for in State v. Veneroso the Judges continue:
    We conclude that the knife was not discernible by ordinary observation. Instead, it [the weapon, a knife] was identified by a trained officer, who was specifically looking for weapons, only after he moved to a particular vantage point. Had he not peered into the vehicle from a different angle, the knife would have gone unobserved as such. The positioning of the knife between the seat and the console concealed it from casual observation. These facts show that the officer had probable cause to believe Veneroso was unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon. Thus, we hold that Veneroso's arrest was lawful.

    From an acquaintance in the legal profession in Idaho:
    There is a comma in the first part of the section [3302(9)] that makes one wonder if the part discussing being inside the city limits is a sub-clause and thus separate from the vehicle portion. This is not the case, however. State v. Veneroso (2003) states, "I.C. 18-3302(9) provides that while in any motor vehicle inside the confines of a city, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his or her person without a license." That makes it clear that the prohibition on conceal carrying in a vehicle is only while one is inside the city limits.

    NOTE: Again, the reader is responsible to validate any and/or all of this commentary and is encouraged to do so with a practicing Idaho attorney.
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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-07-2013 at 10:26 PM. Reason: rule #19

  9. #9
    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneadam View Post
    It was a great experience and I think even once I get my CCW I may still carry OC.
    Wait till the snow cometh, and it cometh soon. You'll like your CCW a lot. OCing with quadruple layers of clothing is something else -- not easy...

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