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Thread: IF The veto override is successful?

  1. #1
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    IF The veto override is successful?

    Deleted the message.
    Last edited by mspgunner; 08-26-2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Fixed title
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    ^ A solution in search of a problem.

    I'm not responsible for ensuring the police are knowlegeable of new laws and enforce them correctly. That is their department's responsibility.

    Every year, hundreds of new laws are passed, and many are repealed. Departments have been dealing with this since their inception.

    However, I am glad to know that there is one person out there willing to contribute time and energy ensuring that the police know about this one in the event the veto is overturned.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Thanks Marc...I think it looks good and is a good idea.

    Albeit, the cities and towns will eventually be made aware of the changes; there is nothing wrong with providing them immediate notice to help prevent immediate confrontations by LEO awaiting the news to trickle down through the municipalities bureaucracy. It may start the process sooner, rather than later.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that LE through out the state knows already. A formal notification to your local LEA could/would mitigate any claims of "I did not know, or I was not trained."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    The open carry movement has been successful in changing the State statute sighted above for the benefit of the people of The State of Missouri which supersedes that of your municipal code.1 To avoid any misunderstanding or any action which might be initiated by law enforcement the communication of this change in State law should 2 be immediately disseminated throughout your City for the safety and security of both your law enforcement personnel and the law abiding citizens who exercise this “right” 3 under the Missouri statutes.

    I personally stand ready to engage in discussion with the law enforcement agency and City elected officials who may have questions in regard to this change in State law. I would ask that your City laws/ordinances be rapidly modified to correct for this change in Missouri State law.

    Sincerely,
    Looked awesome until the second to last paragraph. Three things I would change (bolded & numbered in the quote):

    1) Remove this sentence entirely. Citing a movement, and specifically stating that State Law trumps their law may alienate them. They already know State law supersedes theirs, and they don't need to know there is any kind of OC movement.

    2) Change it to "we request". This way, they get the feeling that it's their choice, which allows them to save face in their own eyes.

    3) Remove the quotes. It is a right. No need to sugarcoat it.

    Other than that, I like it! Good job.
    Last edited by Oramac; 08-26-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Looked awesome until the second to last paragraph. Three things I would change (bolded & numbered in the quote):

    1) Remove this sentence entirely. Citing a movement, and specifically stating that State Law trumps their law may alienate them. They already know State law supersedes theirs, and they don't need to know there is any kind of OC movement.

    2) Change it to "we request". This way, they get the feeling that it's their choice, which allows them to save face in their own eyes.

    3) Remove the quotes. It is a right. No need to sugarcoat it.

    Other than that, I like it! Good job.
    Thanks for the input!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Looks perfect to me.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    ...If "we" give notice when the veto over ride is complete, assuming it is, we can decrease the possibility of a LEO encounter, facilitate changes in municipal laws and proactively prevent any misunderstanding on their part...
    First, I admire your sense of initiative.

    And, no offense meant, and I wish you were right, but unless MO is different than every other state in the union (it's not), your letter is mostly a waste of time. That's the case whether your letter is from John Q. Public, Missouri Open Carry, or the law firm of Dewey, Cheatam and Howe. It carries zero weight. Police Chiefs and elected officials are generally informed by members of the legal profession whom they employ, or who have legal influence on their municipality.

    There are some municipalities who will be informed, but those aren't the ones that aren't likely to cause OCers trouble. If you can figure out which ones they are, just send them the letter.

    In many, many others municipalities (most, I will say), because of political pressure or leanings, both Chiefs of Police and elected representatives recognize how insulated they and their subordinates are to repercussions should an officer decide to a) threaten you with charges, or b) enforce a law, on the books or not, by charging you. They'll blow off the letter and continue to act just as they always have until a) someone shows up at a council meeting protesting the fact that their officers don't know the law, and/or b) someone files and wins a lawsuit because of repeated illegal actions or harassment on the part of their police department.

    IF your intent is to put a certain municipality on notice, I suggest you contact an attorney and see how one does it so that your communication is considered a) notice and b) a public record. Then, should there be trouble, you can do a records request (MO may call it FOIA or somesuch) for your previous communication, and ask why the matter was never followed up on. In Ohio, OFCC (Ohioans for Concealed Carry) sent out a rather self-serving communication after being prodded by its membership for more than a year. Because of Ohio's open records laws, and some other factors, including the fact that the OFCC letter requested no information (which would have then caused it to be an open records request, subject to a records retention policy), the letter was considered a solicitation, and generally round-filed.

    Also, if you are determined to communicate with someone, you may want to start with MO's county prosecutors (or whatever they're called there), making sure that your correspondence is considered "notice". It's likely that they play the role of informing the various smaller municipalities who don't have their own prosecutor.

    FYI - YEARS after preemption and specific mention of the legality of open carry in the Ohio Revised Code (ORC 9.68), various police departments are still threatening and charging OCers, and others refuse to change their laws. Down the road, if you and we get real teeth like KY and FL have in their laws, most of those problems will magically disappear.

    I hope this helps, and wish you the best.

    <edited to add> ORC 9.68: http://tinyurl.com/kvwp25l
    Last edited by BB62; 08-26-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Looks perfect to me.
    Thanks for the suggestion. When I get home Sept. 11th I'll get this out.
    This way at lesast they will know it was passed.
    It will be sent to the city elected officials as well as their law enforcment what ever...

    They can't say they didn't know. We wil no doubt see an increase in open carry in Missouri.

    I have no doubt this wil be a big story in many media outlets.

    First order - get the darn veto over turned!!!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  10. #10
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    My little burg already has a OC is ok with CCW permit ordinance. Another smaller nearby burg has a no OC period ordinance. I have already put the council, mayor and police chief of that burg on notice that if HB436 gets overridden their little pissy ordinance goes out the door. They have checked into it and are not happy but said they would follow the new law..
    I am not puttin gout the word till after HB436 is law. There is no reason to have municipalities put pressure on legislators to vote "NO".
    Please wait till after HB436 gets the veto over ride. It is telling the anti-folks what "we" are going to do, that is not a good idea.
    Thisis why till now I have NEVER posted what legislation is in the pipe till it is public. I in retrospect should not have posted what i did.

    I'm going back and wil delete it.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Likely a "shot heard around the state" that nobody will actually hear.

    I would have liked to have seen in the language that OC alone is not grounds for a investigative stop to determine if a valid endorsement is possessed. Though, a thug cop will not let the law, or the intent of the law, mitigate his thuggery. Be prepared to be detained and hassled in the Maplewoods of this state.....STLPD is gunna have a fit.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    .....STLPD is gunna have a fit.
    Especially when we send them the photo of all of us OC'ing under the arch.

    You know it's going to get taken sometime. Not if, but when.

    I plan on being in the photo.

  13. #13
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Especially when we send them the photo of all of us OC'ing under the arch.

    You know it's going to get taken sometime. Not if, but when.

    I plan on being in the photo.
    This was my intention! The arch photo op is a priority.

    As far as the stop and identify with CCW in Muni's that prohibit... I had to bend at every corner to get this through, if I had not we'd have gotten NOTHING!
    Getting any progress with OC took me 4 years! I just listened to the voices and said yes.
    There are too many that could just say no and had the power to use that word... NO!
    Like I have said since the start "anyone is free to go to Jeff City and try this themselves, good luck".

    When the time comes to OC in maplewood, the City of St. louis... on and on and on I'll carry my CCW in my shirt pocket, it wil save time, for me and LOEs.

    Eventually they'll just get tired of it. If it happens more than once in thr same muni the same day, it's harassement, that can be dealth with!

    I hope that wil change next year? PlANS are already written. My Momma didn't raise no fool, there are ways...
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  14. #14
    Regular Member osmanobma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    This was my intention! The arch photo op is a priority.

    As far as the stop and identify with CCW in Muni's that prohibit... I had to bend at every corner to get this through, if I had not we'd have gotten NOTHING!
    Getting any progress with OC took me 4 years! I just listened to the voices and said yes.
    There are too many that could just say no and had the power to use that word... NO!
    Like I have said since the start "anyone is free to go to Jeff City and try this themselves, good luck".

    When the time comes to OC in maplewood, the City of St. louis... on and on and on I'll carry my CCW in my shirt pocket, it wil save time, for me and LOEs.

    Eventually they'll just get tired of it. If it happens more than once in thr same muni the same day, it's harassement, that can be dealth with!

    I hope that wil change next year? PlANS are already written. My Momma didn't raise no fool, there are ways...

    thanks for the hard work mspgunner. i know the legislation is far from perfect. but its better than nothing, and its a start. lets just hope and pray the veto is successful.

    i wish i could be there on the 10th but i will still be here in sunny NAS Pensacola. i think i can be back in Missouri on leave on the 27th, open carrying everywhere, hopefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osmanobma View Post
    thanks for the hard work mspgunner. i know the legislation is far from perfect. but its better than nothing, and its a start. lets just hope and pray the veto is successful.

    i wish i could be there on the 10th but i will still be here in sunny NAS Pensacola. i think i can be back in Missouri on leave on the 27th, open carrying everywhere, hopefully.
    Thank you for your service osmanobma.

    Fingers crossed and locked & loaded for 9/11/13!

  16. #16
    Regular Member osmanobma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoreBoy View Post
    Thank you for your service osmanobma.

    Fingers crossed and locked & loaded for 9/11/13!
    why thank you.
    lets pray for a victory. So when i do get to go home we can all exercise our rights just i little bit more.!!

    man just the thought of open carrying in St. Louis City is exciting. (although in some parts of the city, scary, at least for me)

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