Founding Fathers labeled as "Extremists"

cirrusly · Aug 27, 2013

This was a disturbing article on FOX today. In short, the Pentagon and DoD are instructing soldiers that those who: “... talk of individual liberties, states’ rights and how to make the world a better place.” are considered "extremists," and participating in such activities is “incompatible with military service and is, therefore prohibited.”

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarne...ding-fathers-conservatives-as-extremists.html

So applauding states' rights to bear arms and supporting 2A is "extremist"? This is the most back assword thinking I've heard in a long time.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 27, 2013

They were extremist, they also were radicals, confrontational, and called anarchist and traitors by the prevailing empire and their government at the time.

OC for ME · Aug 27, 2013

And the DoD employees are charged with, by oath or affirmation, to defend the very document created by those extremists (some would say terrorists) that is the foundation of our society, how ironic.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 27, 2013

OC for ME said:
And the DoD employees are charged with, by oath or affirmation, to defend the very document created by those extremists (some would say terrorists) that is the foundation of our society, how ironic.

+1

eye95 · Aug 27, 2013

This is the line that bothered me the most:

“Nowadays, instead of dressing in sheets or publically espousing hate messages, many extremists will talk of individual liberties, states’ rights and how to make the world a better place.”

I don't do any of the above "instead of wearing a sheet." Screw you and your racism, Obama. I believe in Liberty because I want to protect me and mine from fascists like you and the Goebbels wannabe who wrote that crap.

Obama, you are the one whose views are extremist when compared to the values that founded this nation.

OC for ME · Aug 27, 2013

eye95 said:
<snip>

Obama, you are the one whose views are extremist when compared to the values that founded this nation.

It seems that a sizable majority of Americans agree with this statement. Though, it certainly does not seem to be the case when it comes time to vote.

stealthyeliminator · Aug 27, 2013

OC for ME said:
It seems that a sizable majority of Americans agree with this statement. Though, it certainly does not seem to be the case when it comes time to vote.

A large enough portion of America don't have the comprehension skills to even determine what they might "agree" with. They have been suckered into thinking that Obama will take care of them. Period. It is really that simple. Line up here, pick up your shackles there. Here is your "free" food stamp, slave.

DocWalker · Aug 27, 2013

What is really at the heart of this is the goverment trying to brain wash our soilders as to think the American Citizen is the enemy of the goverment......

Can anyone say goverment out of control.....

El Guapo · Aug 27, 2013

Originally Posted by OC for ME
And the DoD employees are charged with, by oath or affirmation, to defend the very document created by those extremists (some would say terrorists) that is the foundation of our society, how ironic.

+2

beebobby · Aug 27, 2013

The definition as described by the DoD of extremist:
“Extremism – A term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups who take a political idea to its limits, regardless of unfortunate repercussions, and show intolerance toward all views other than their own.
“Extremist – A person who advocates the use of force or violence; advocates supremacist causes based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, or national origin; or otherwise engages to illegally deprive individuals or groups of their civil rights.
Typical hyperbolizing. Not every Christian is an extremist, but there are extremist Christians, not every Conservative or Liberal is an extremist, but there are extremist Conservatives and Liberals. I understand how media pundits aren't smart enough to understand the concept of nuance, but I expect our military to be smarter than that, and it seems they are. Another victimhood cry in your beer piece, oh no the Pentagon is out to get conservatives.

KYGlockster · Aug 27, 2013

Thank you to everyone who put this administration back into office. I really appreciate everything you have done for this country. You have truly shown us what we DON'T want for this country and our lives! Now if you would please leave so we can get back to our constitutional principles and beliefs of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we would really appreciate it.

American Patriot

DrakeZ07 · Aug 27, 2013

KYGlockster said:
Thank you to everyone who put this administration back into office. I really appreciate everything you have done for this country. You have truly shown us what we DON'T want for this country and our lives! Now if you would please leave so we can get back to our constitutional principles and beliefs of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we would really appreciate it.

American Patriot

^> Implying that, by telling everyone who doesn't vote, and think, and speak as I do, to get out of the nation, is an 'American Patriot'.

Because, that's EXACTLY what I want to see out of a COP, Oh, sorry, you don't like being called that, Glockster, I mean't 'Agent of Government'.

I'm not being sarcastic. I really do like seeing cops talk, and act, and type that way, it really helps those of us disillusioned with the status quo, to see the true nature of our "boys in blue".

Citizen · Aug 28, 2013

OC for ME said:
And the DoD employees are charged with, by oath or affirmation, to defend the very document created by those extremists (some would say terrorists) that is the foundation of our society, how ironic.

Small but crucial point.

The government is not society. The constitution founded the special corporation called the United States. That is the official name of the federal government: the United States.

One can refer to the country as the United States or America. But, one of the definitions of the United States--the original definition, and still in use--is the federal government.

For example, the Supreme Court of the United States is not a term referring to a supreme court of a country. The term refers to a certain court of a particular government.

Nothing but nothing in the constitution authorizes the fedgov to lead society. It was not set up to have the president lead "the nation". The president is the senior position in the executive branch. Nothing more.

The criminal parasites who rule us, and those who support them, very much want people to not see those distinctions.

eye95 · Aug 28, 2013

Arguing a technical definition that flies in the face a overwhelming common usage is a pointless intellectual exercise. It is as pointless as one arguing against another using "begging the question" as it is overwhelmingly commonly used because he did not use it according to the technical definition.

When folks write "United States" or "America," they are almost exclusively referring to the nation and to the People, so much so that anyone using the terms in another way ought, for clarity, to say so.

I will continue to assume that the titles refer to the nation or to the People, unless the user specifically states otherwise.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 28, 2013

eye95 said:
This is the line that bothered me the most:

“Nowadays, instead of dressing in sheets or publically espousing hate messages, many extremists will talk of individual liberties, states’ rights and how to make the world a better place.”

I don't do any of the above "instead of wearing a sheet." Screw you and your racism, Obama. I believe in Liberty because I want to protect me and mine from fascists like you and the Goebbels wannabe who wrote that crap.

Obama, you are the one whose views are extremist when compared to the values that founded this nation.

+1 I would extend it to the "conservatives" too.

That line is infuriating. Let's link liberty, and making the world a better place and the right of people to be governed by consent to a well known symbol and group of bigotry , hate and violence.......

Distract people from the fact that government and especially any that is a move toward socialism and centralization have been the greatest murderers throughout human history.

eye95 said:
Arguing a technical definition that flies in the face a overwhelming common usage is a pointless intellectual exercise. It is as pointless as one arguing against another using "begging the question" as it is overwhelmingly commonly used because he did not use it according to the technical definition.

When folks write "United States" or "America," they are almost exclusively referring to the nation and to the People, so much so that anyone using the terms in another way ought, for clarity, to say so.

I will continue to assume that the titles refer to the nation or to the People, unless the user specifically states otherwise.

I used to feel the same I don't anymore, the nation is not the people the nation is the government, pointing this out to people helps them learn not to conflate the two.

eye95 · Aug 28, 2013

Then you should advocate for folks to use the term in the way you propose. However, when they do, they ought to say so, because the overwhelming majority of people will assume that they mean the nation or the People.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Citizen · Aug 28, 2013

The crucial point is the distinction between society and government. The constitution is not the foundation of society. The government is not the bedrock upon which society exists.

OC for ME · Aug 28, 2013

Citizen said:
The crucial point is the distinction between society and government. The constitution is not the foundation of society. The government is not the bedrock upon which society exists.

Not according to liberals.

DrakeZ07 · Aug 28, 2013

OC for ME said:
Not according to liberals.

Or Conservatives.

eye95 · Aug 28, 2013

Citizen said:
The crucial point is the distinction between society and government. The constitution is not the foundation of society. The government is not the bedrock upon which society exists.

However, you were discussing terminology, bucking the tide of what the overwhelming majority of people would mean when saying "the United States" or "America." My only point is that if you are going to use those terms in a way that the vast majority don't, that is entirely up to you. However, it would only be effective if you alerted your readers to that usage and did not expect that usage from everyone else.

Me? If I say "US" or "America," I am referring to the nation. If I mean the government, I will explicitly say so. Most of the conflation that is occurring is when one infers that conflation by arbitrarily applying definitions that are not generally accepted.

Founding Fathers labeled as "Extremists"

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