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Thread: Situational Awareness. I am certain I was almost robbed.

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    Situational Awareness. I am certain I was almost robbed.

    Preface: I rushed out of the house and realized I forgot my pistol about half way to work. I didnt have time to turn around and get it so I just kept going. This is probably the first time without it...and will be the last time. Mistake #1.

    This was a good wake-up call with no harm done. Without a keen eye on what was being set up, this could have been much worse. Situational awareness and keeping my head on a swivel probably saved me from a bad situation.

    After work (2200) I was gassing up my jeep and noticed a younger black male riding a bike very slowly out of the shadows and eyeballing me hard. He never dropped eye contact. This sort of put me on the alert and I grabbed my big heavy flashlight in the center console and put it on my drivers seat, next to where I was standing.

    Next thing I know a 40ish year old black guy is coming up along the other side of the pump line, just out of my view, but I saw his shadow. He popped up around my pump and quickly introduced himself and held out his hand, taking a couple steps towards me.

    I told him to stop and to give me a little space. He held his hands up and said "yeah man yeah man, no problem i respect that you go space man, no problem man etc etc etc"
    He was still standing there with his hands up and after a few seconds and I sternly said "hey man, look, i need you to just back up and leave me alone."

    He said "ok man yeah man no problem man i respect that i know man aiight man" and turned and walked away to the next parking lot over which was Waffle House.

    At that point I felt like I was in a bad place so I just put the pump handle up and drove out of there. Now... up until this point I was thinking it was just some tweaker looking for a handout or something. But, as I was pulling out of the gas station, I noticed the same guy coming from the Waffle House parking lot to a parked vehicle on the side of the road with the lights on. He jumped in the back seat and they drove off.


    After talking to one of my police officer buddies he said that this is a very common set up where you have the frontal distraction (the handshake guy) and the guy who comes up from the side or back and pistol whip the victim then rob them. Then the nearby vehicle is the getaway.


    I feel like an ass for not helping someone, but that is just the kind of mentality that these people prey upon. I will stop in an instant to help someone who drove into a ditch or needs a jump or something.... but this just had a stank about the whole situation.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Glad you had good SA....Funny how that crap happens too..The one dang time you forgot your tool box...
    Something I have kept as a tool while fueling...I keep the nozzle in my hand while fueling. If someone appraoches the way that guy did, you can stop flow, and pull it out and hold it like a gun. If SHTF 40 cents of gas in the face can save a life...
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    That crossed my mind as I saw the shadow coming from behind the pump line.

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    Also, I am certain that if I was OCing, I would not have been approached in the first place.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    I agree sir...Had you had it open, no doubt, they would have chosen more wisely..

    IT also threw him/them off when you were firm, and not a "wuss"..Headed for easier pastures to glean..
    Last edited by Red Dawg; 08-27-2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Added
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry

    That's probably one of the more hair-raising accounts I have ever read. It sure is a good thing your spidey-sense was tingling.

    And this is exactly the kind of thing that makes me loathe my own employers for disarming us. Sure, it is UNLIKELY that we will be victimized, but the chance of one in one million is still a chance. I can't get that through the HNIC's skull.

    Dammit, we need a real, honest-to-goodness parking lot bill.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You did well Djeeper!

    I'm surprised you don't have a resident Jeep gun or two though. I have a rifle, double barrel shotgun and 44 mag that live in mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    You did well Djeeper!

    I'm surprised you don't have a resident Jeep gun or two though. I have a rifle, double barrel shotgun and 44 mag that live in mine.
    I don't have any firearm I am willing to lose :-/

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    IANAL and I am glad the OP is safe, but I would be VERY CAREFUL about actually spraying someone who is a potential assailant with gasoline. After all it's just a threat of a robbery, not exactly life-threatening and the person (hypothetical) hasn't done anything yet.

    It just seems likely to get the intended victim in a lot of trouble. Now, threatening to do that, maybe. To me, and it's just a hunch, you'd be better off shooting them, though again, unarmed, it's tough.

    ISTM that the knowledgeable criminal could probably make a good living out of carefully threatening people, making sure they (the BG) are visibly not armed and getting away with significant crime. Conversely, we, the LAC, the potential victims have to tread very carefully (it's a shame).

    Again glad you are safe, OP.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 08-27-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    I don't have any firearm I am willing to lose :-/
    Me either...been doing it since 67 or 68 and no problems so far. Different places I guess.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    I agree sir...Had you had it open, no doubt, they would have chosen more wisely..

    IT also threw him/them off when you were firm, and not a "wuss"..Headed for easier pastures to glean..
    For the umpteenth+1 time - that thing on your belt is NOT a magic talisman that will keep the bad things away.

    While we are still waiting for the verified report of an OCer being targeted because of their OCd handgun, it is still possible that an unban entrepeneur will not even notice you are carrying - until it might be too late. Situational awareness should not turn on or off depending on if you are carrying or not - as the OP's story clearly demonstrates.

    While I think the OP did good (heck, they are here to tell us about the incident) I'm wondering about their command prresence and command voice.

    I told him to stop and to give me a little space. He held his hands up and said "yeah man yeah man, no problem i respect that you go space man, no problem man etc etc etc"
    He was still standing there with his hands up and after a few seconds and I sternly said "hey man, look, i need you to just back up and leave me alone."
    I'm personally in favor of unambiguous commands: "Stop!" "Step backwards." "Step backwards now!" It does not matter if I want space or if he has bad breath or is just ugly. And there is nothing about my wants or needs - just plain do it - now!

    Again, not a criticism of what the OP did. Just some thoughts on what might work better.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member half_life1052's Avatar
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    using your environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    Glad you had good SA....Funny how that crap happens too..The one dang time you forgot your tool box...
    Something I have kept as a tool while fueling...I keep the nozzle in my hand while fueling. If someone appraoches the way that guy did, you can stop flow, and pull it out and hold it like a gun. If SHTF 40 cents of gas in the face can save a life...
    Adding to that -- tossing a lit zippo lighter to the perp will give you space and time to get out of there. In a perfect world you will also have a screaming alpha. The cautionary notes elsewhere about waiting until there is an actual threat has merit but waiting too long to react with force will put you on the losing end.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    Glad you had good SA....Funny how that crap happens too..The one dang time you forgot your tool box...
    Something I have kept as a tool while fueling...I keep the nozzle in my hand while fueling. If someone appraoches the way that guy did, you can stop flow, and pull it out and hold it like a gun. If SHTF 40 cents of gas in the face can save a life...
    Will that work with all that vapor recovery crap they have on them?
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    Will that work with all that vapor recovery crap they have on them?
    Vapor recovery works by back pressure. It will pump just fine directly into the air. Think about it , you wouldn't be able to fill a gas can if it worked more like what you are suggesting.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Beware of strangers in the dark offering a hand(shake).

    The common tactic is you shake their hand and they never let go. Now, they have your dominant hand firmly grasped and you cannot get away, only option is to fight or submit.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    Beware of strangers in the dark offering a hand(shake).

    The common tactic is you shake their hand and they never let go. Now, they have your dominant hand firmly grasped and you cannot get away, only option is to fight or submit.
    Good job, DJEEPER!

    I've had that happen to me, too. In my case, the guy came from behind in a busy gas station in daylight and got close enough to touch me, but didn't. You're essentially trapped between your vehicle and the gas pump.

    He asked for some money for gas. My sudden reaction caught him a bit off guard, and given the other folks standing nearby, he backed off. I even brought up that scenario at a NNPD Town Hall Meeting. They were cautioning people to be aware of their surroundings.

    As for the lit Zippo, not a good idea. Unintended consequences, etc.

    As for the dominant hand being grasped in a handshake, we Southpaws have the edge.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 08-27-2013 at 10:51 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    I have a habit, while pumping gas, I keep the driver side door open and stand in-between the pump hose and the door with my back on the jeep. It keeps anyone from coming up behind me.

    Luckily, this allowed me to observe everything that was happening and if someone did happen to charge me from the flank, they would have an obstacle to get around first which could buy me precious second.


    This situation sucked. Its a horrible feeling when you know you are about to get into a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    I have a habit, while pumping gas, I keep the driver side door open and stand in-between the pump hose and the door with my back on the jeep. It keeps anyone from coming up behind me.

    Luckily, this allowed me to observe everything that was happening and if someone did happen to charge me from the flank, they would have an obstacle to get around first which could buy me precious second.


    This situation sucked. Its a horrible feeling when you know you are about to get into a fight.
    It also keeps you trapped. I usually stand behind my vehicle when I gas up.

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    I too work for a company that does not allow guns in the parking lots. Although I quit smoking years ago, I carry a bic lighter in my LF pants pocket and one in my coat or vest pocket. If I have to stop and fuel up on the way home at night, I always have my left hand in one of those pockets just in case. I get approached by people at night bumming money or wanting a ride. If always planned that if things started to go sour during an encounter I would point the nozzle at them and ask them if they would like a light.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 08-28-2013 at 04:55 AM.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    You do realize that it is getting harder and harder to find Bic-style lighters that are not childproofed - meaning you have to keep your thumb on the valve switch or it goes out.

    Tossing an unlit lighter may buy you a second or two as the BG laughs.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Normally, this would be posted to the Hampton Roads OC thread, but since we're talking about Situational Awareness, I thought it should go here.

    I was in the Denbigh Lowe's store about an hour ago OCing), and saw another unicorn, OCing a BAR (Big Assed Revolver) on his right hip. He was inside, walking toward me from the tool section headed towards lawn & garden, across the front of the store, looking around. I decided that I needed a cart, so walked towards the exit (checkout lanes) past him and outside. We passed within 10 feet of each other. He never saw me. The store wasn't crowded.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You do realize that it is getting harder and harder to find Bic-style lighters that are not childproofed - meaning you have to keep your thumb on the valve switch or it goes out.

    Tossing an unlit lighter may buy you a second or two as the BG laughs.

    stay safe.
    1. Since I stopped smoking years ago I have plenty of old Bic lighters that still light. Some even have the flame adjustment dials. The only problems is that the flint eventually deteriorates over time. I have been able to replace the flints by carefully taking the top apart. I just have to be careful to not loose the flint spring that pops out when removing the striker wheel.

    2. I didn't say anything about throwing the lighter. If he is close enough to spray with the gas nozzle he is close enough to reach out to touch with the lit lighter.

    3. If he is not quite close enough to touch with the flame after dousing him there is always the gas pump nozzle flame thrower.

    4. If he is doused with gas, he may just ignite himself if he tries to fire any weapon he may have.

    Either way it ain't good for the guy who is dripping in gasoline.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I haven't been feeling well lately so I'm sleeping less that normal. I started thinking about this thread and around 2:30 went into the city just to see if the night crowd avoided me. Stayed an hour and a half, drank 3 cups of coffee while leaning on my car and......indeed, the children of the night kept their distance.

    Interesting place in the early morning!

    [IMG][/IMG]

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    mobeewan -

    I surely do not want to get into a debate or a description of what happens to someone who has been doused with gasoline. For the record, I have seen that elephant - more than once. All I want to say is that you do not want to be close enough to set them alight with the lighter in your hand, and you do not want to use the gas pump as a "flamethrower". It's dangerous. Which is why I advocate throwing the lit object if at all possible.

    I think we both agree that being situationally aware and considering the range of options available is better than having tunnel vision and believing you only have one tool available. Improvide. Adapt. Overcome. Prevail. Especially that last part.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I think you did fine DJEEPER. As far as forgetting your gun, you "can" keep a lockbox in your jeep cabled to something solid. I have done this and kept a "cheaper" gun in there in case I wasn't OC-ing due to whatever law or policy. In the case where you forgot you could use the car-gun as a backup. Also I always carry a blade so you should keep one on you or in your car at the least. The blades are cheaper than guns and if you had one stolen it wouldn't be such a big deal. There is also pepper spray etc as a option for the times you can't OC. Now with that said I am glad that the offender didn't whip out his own firearm during your encounter. I think your command to back off showed the potential perp that he wasn't picking on someone that would just roll over and decided to go to greener pastures.

    For those of you that don't know DJEEPER personally, he has really good situational awareness. I believe EVERY time that we have met he has seen me first, including tonight at the mall. He even crept up behind me and placed a finger in my back once. :-)

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