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Interstate transportation of firearms

Grapeshot

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I can't speak to whether it has the force of law, but the title of the section establishes that the context of the law as being interstate transportation.

--snip--

To my understanding/kowledge, the title of a law or section has no bearing/meaning as to the content. Such is purely for identification/location purposes.
 

eye95

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I would say that it depends on the intent of the legislators. If they included the title in the legislation, and it was not some arbitrary decision by some administrator, then I think it would be found as establishing the context of the law, i.e. the law would only be in force during the interstate transportation.


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<o>
 

hrdware

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Um, no. I read the link you provided and it says NO SUCH THING.

It says

"any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle"
-snip-

I had to read this twice and think about for a good 12 hours to finally understand what you were saying.....but I finally got it. Thanks for explaining your interpretation of this.
 

skidmark

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OCforMe - a smiley would have helped indicate that you are being playfully facetious as opposed to purposely trying to get someone arrested.

Grapeshot - FOPA requires the locked container yo be placed in the trink unless there is not one - in which case the locked container needs to be placed in a location farthest from the reach of all passengers. THat would put it behind the seat in your truck, or in the back with the ATV (wheelchair) in my Gimpmobile minivan.

All - FOPA allows you to pass through otherwise prohibited territory if you start from a place where possession is permitted and are going as directly as possible to an ending place where possession is permitted. Brief stops for refueling, bathroom breaks, meals and the like are allowed, as are overnight stays (even in prohibited places) if you then immediately resume your trave to the permitted destination. Scheduling a stop to have dinner with Aunt Edna who lives in a prohibited place probably will not pass muster as it was your destination (even if an intermediate destination). OTOH, reserving a room at a motel/hotel in a prohibited place as part of your journey to a permitted place probably is OK - even if you call Aunt Edna and invite her to meet you there.

Remember that NY (state as well as City) and NJ treat FOPA as an authorized defense and will allow you to bring that up at your trial. If you are flying/taking the train through those places and are forced to delay your journey, DO NOT claim your baggage and take it with you to wherever you are put up overnight. DO NOT claim your baggage when you transfer from one flight/train to another - have them checked through at the start of the trip and let the airline/AMTRAK schlep them from one terminal/track to the other.

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--
Grapeshot - FOPA requires the locked container yo be placed in the trink unless there is not one - in which case the locked container needs to be placed in a location farthest from the reach of all passengers. THat would put it behind the seat in your truck, or in the back with the ATV (wheelchair) in my Gimpmobile minivan.
Have never said/claimed otherwise.
 

georg jetson

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Simple: Have approved storage container/safe in passanger compartment - secure gun and then get out and put it in the trunk.

See no reason that that will not work.

Just in case anyone thinks me or (heaven forbid) Grapeshot are spreading misinformation...

Grape is not suggesting to use the "approved storage container/safe in passanger compartment" AND place it in the trunk to comply with FOPA. It has to do with Florida law. In order to become FOPA compliant in Florida, the only way for me to exit my vehicle to place my firearm(legally possessed while IN the vehicle) in the trunk is as Grape suggests.
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--
Again, the key word in FOPA is ENTITLED. NOT REQUIRED to.

Just in case anyone thinks me or (heaven forbid) Grapeshot are spreading misinformation...

Grape is not suggesting to use the "approved storage container/safe in passanger compartment" AND place it in the trunk to comply with FOPA. It has to do with Florida law. In order to become FOPA compliant in Florida, the only way for me to exit my vehicle to place my firearm(legally possessed while IN the vehicle) in the trunk is as Grape suggests.
You are both correct as to my opinion and what I understand is the law(s).
icon14.png


Isn't it nice when we can agree to agree. :)
 

OC for ME

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OCforMe - a smiley would have helped indicate that you are being playfully facetious as opposed to purposely trying to get someone arrested.

<snip>

OC for ME
...any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place wherehe may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle...



LACs can transport only if they transport as is described.

<snip>
I drive through Illinois on my way to South Carolina. This law is alleged to "protect" me from getting arrested for violating Illinois firearms law. There are no restrictions place upon me regarding possession or carry in MO, other than CC, and SC has no permit requirement to possess, no OC in SC. My MO permit permits me to CC in SC.
 

notalawyer

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I drive through Illinois on my way to South Carolina. This law is alleged to "protect" me from getting arrested for violating Illinois firearms law. There are no restrictions place upon me regarding possession or carry in MO, other than CC, and SC has no permit requirement to possess, no OC in SC. My MO permit permits me to CC in SC.

This law does not protect you from an arrest. It might protect you from a conviction. Big difference.

Due to the wording, the courts have ruled that it is unreasonable to expect the LEO to know if it is legal where you said your are coming from, and legal to where you are going. That is a matter for the trial court to determine.
Therefore any arrest for a violation of a local law is completely proper and legal.
 

notalawyer

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Thanks! You a Florida OCer?

As often as State laws allow. Which is admittedly not much compared to many other states. But since I go camping and hunting almost every weekend, I open carry to, from and while doing so 2-3 days a week. Also open carry to/from the range and at home/work. So nearly every day.
 

OC for ME

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This law does not protect you from an arrest. It might protect you from a conviction. Big difference.

Due to the wording, the courts have ruled that it is unreasonable to expect the LEO to know if it is legal where you said your are coming from, and legal to where you are going. That is a matter for the trial court to determine.
Therefore any arrest for a violation of a local law is completely proper and legal.
True.

I will inform a cop that I am transiting the state and that 18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926, enables me to possess and carry as described in that law. If I get arrested, my recording of he being informed is another factor in my favor and proof that the cop is a ill-informed thug. A Illinois cop should know this law given the number of interstate highways that enable transit through Illinois. So, a ignernt cop, in Illinois, will be held civilly liable for being ignernt.
 

notalawyer

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Just in case anyone thinks me or (heaven forbid) Grapeshot are spreading misinformation...

Grape is not suggesting to use the "approved storage container/safe in passanger compartment" AND place it in the trunk to comply with FOPA. It has to do with Florida law. In order to become FOPA compliant in Florida, the only way for me to exit my vehicle to place my firearm(legally possessed while IN the vehicle) in the trunk is as Grape suggests.

Just to clarify.
Actually, doing so - concealing the firearm while outside of the car - even if it is just from the driver's door to say a hotel room, or apartment, or yes even the trunk - would be a felony (for folks without a Florida CWFL or other state reciprocal). Doing it openly would only be a misdemeanor (for everyone).

Florida allows anyone 18 or over to keep a firearm in the closed glove-box, closed console or any other closed container, in the car. The problem to be aware of is that somehow our legislature never provided for the transport of that legally possessed firearm in the car to an apartment or hotel room, etc.

For example if you park your car on the street in front of your house and have to traverse some public property to get to the property on which your home resides, it is 'technically' illegal to do so either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly (unless of course you are at, or are going to or coming from the range, hunting, fishing camping, etc.) It is also similarly illegal to cross the parking lot of a hotel or apartment complex either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly - to get inside your apartment or hotel room.
 
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notalawyer

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True.

I will inform a cop that I am transiting the state and that 18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926, enables me to possess and carry as described in that law. If I get arrested, my recording of he being informed is another factor in my favor and proof that the cop is a ill-informed thug. A Illinois cop should know this law given the number of interstate highways that enable transit through Illinois. So, a ignernt cop, in Illinois, will be held civilly liable for being ignernt.

No, no they will not. It's called 'Qualified Immunity.'

Federal courts have ruled that LEO cannot be expected to know the laws of all 50 states regarding the legality your possession of firearms in your departure state and ultimate destination state.

After you are legally (properly) arrested for a State law violation, post bond and hire an attorney - hopefully he can convince the prosecutor to not actually file charges. Otherwise you will end up at trial, proving that you did indeed depart from State 'A' where it was legal to possess that firearm, and prove that your destination was in fact State 'B' where it was also legal for you to possess that firearm. If you are lucky enough to get a competent Judge, perhaps he will understand the law and not find you guilty. Otherwise you will wind up spending more money appealing the conviction to a competent state appeals court or Federal court.
 

1245A Defender

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Wowwie!!!!

Their is a reason you are "Not A Lawyer"!!!



Just to clarify.
Actually, doing so - concealing the firearm while outside of the car - even if it is just from the driver's door to say a hotel room, or apartment, or yes even the trunk - would be a felony (for folks with a Florida CWFL or other state reciprocal).

Why cant a Floridian, or a recipricaler, Conceal Carry outside his car??


Doing it openly would only be a misdemeanor (for everyone).

Florida allows anyone 18 or over to keep a firearm in the closed glove-box, closed console or any other closed container, in the car. The problem to be aware of is that somehow our legislature never provided form the transport of that legally possessed firearm in the car to an apartment or hotel room, etc.

For example if you park you car on the street in front of your house and have to traverse some public property to get to the property on which your home resides, it is 'technically' illegal to do so either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly (unless of course you at, or are going to or coming from the range, hunting, fishing camping, etc.) It is also similarly illegal to cross the parking lot of a hotel or apartment complex either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly - to get inside your apartment or hotel room.
 

notalawyer

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Their is a reason you are "Not A Lawyer"!!!

No, there is a reason that I'm not a Copy Editor....sometime folks make typo's.

Although in this case (context given the previous discussion with the OP and further clarification in last paragraph) most reasonable people would recognize it for what it was. :uhoh:

Just to clarify.
Actually, doing so - concealing the firearm while outside of the car - even if it is just from the driver's door to say a hotel room, or apartment, or yes even the trunk - would be a felony (for folks without a Florida CWFL or other state reciprocal). Doing it openly would only be a misdemeanor (for everyone).

Florida allows anyone 18 or over to keep a firearm in the closed glove-box, closed console or any other closed container, in the car. The problem to be aware of is that somehow our legislature never provided for the transport of that legally possessed firearm in the car to an apartment or hotel room, etc.

For example if you park your car on the street in front of your house and have to traverse some public property to get to the property on which your home resides, it is 'technically' illegal to do so either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly (unless of course you are at, or are going to or coming from the range, hunting, fishing camping, etc.) It is also similarly illegal to cross the parking lot of a hotel or apartment complex either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly - to get inside your apartment or hotel room.
 
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georg jetson

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Just to clarify.
Actually, doing so - concealing the firearm while outside of the car - even if it is just from the driver's door to say a hotel room, or apartment, or yes even the trunk - would be a felony (for folks without a Florida CWFL or other state reciprocal). Doing it openly would only be a misdemeanor (for everyone).

Florida allows anyone 18 or over to keep a firearm in the closed glove-box, closed console or any other closed container, in the car. The problem to be aware of is that somehow our legislature never provided for the transport of that legally possessed firearm in the car to an apartment or hotel room, etc.

For example if you park your car on the street in front of your house and have to traverse some public property to get to the property on which your home resides, it is 'technically' illegal to do so either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly (unless of course you are at, or are going to or coming from the range, hunting, fishing camping, etc.) It is also similarly illegal to cross the parking lot of a hotel or apartment complex either concealed (without benefit of a CWFL) or openly - to get inside your apartment or hotel room.

Thanks for the clarification. I was prepared to use the "I'm going fishing" defense had I been stopped in Fla.

Just to keep this on topic, while I was in Perdido, I probably crossed the Al/Fla state line tens of times a day. Since the state line runs around Ono Island, being in a boat traveling either in Old River or on the north side of the island, you can cross the state line just be weaving back and forth(which happens when you follow the channel markers). Legislators never think(or care) of the absurd positions they put LACs in when they think up these stupid laws.

BTW - My boat doesn't have a trunk and all compartments are accessible to the driver/passengers so... :(
 
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OC for ME

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No, no they will not. It's called 'Qualified Immunity.'

Federal courts have ruled that LEO cannot be expected to know the laws of all 50 states regarding the legality your possession of firearms in your departure state and ultimate destination state.

After you are legally (properly) arrested for a State law violation, post bond and hire an attorney - hopefully he can convince the prosecutor to not actually file charges. Otherwise you will end up at trial, proving that you did indeed depart from State 'A' where it was legal to possess that firearm, and prove that your destination was in fact State 'B' where it was also legal for you to possess that firearm. If you are lucky enough to get a competent Judge, perhaps he will understand the law and not find you guilty. Otherwise you will wind up spending more money appealing the conviction to a competent state appeals court or Federal court.
18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926 is not any of the 50 state's law, it is federal law and has been shown in this very thread to be a very short federal law as compared to most federal laws. Illinois even had a state supreme court case, some time ago, where they overturned a arrest/conviction, I think, for a out-of-stater who had been caught with a gun, transiting, IAW 18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926. The charge was "no FOID" card as required by Illinois state law for Illinois residents. The court ruled that a non-Illinois resident is not required to have a FOID to transit the state of Illinois.....18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926 applies.

There should be little effort to get a judge to tell a cop, in Illinois, you should have know this law for a out-of-stater encounter.
 

notalawyer

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18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926 is not any of the 50 state's law, it is federal law and has been shown in this very thread to be a very short federal law as compared to most federal laws. Illinois even had a state supreme court case, some time ago, where they overturned a arrest/conviction, I think, for a out-of-stater who had been caught with a gun, transiting, IAW 18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926. The charge was "no FOID" card as required by Illinois state law for Illinois residents. The court ruled that a non-Illinois resident is not required to have a FOID to transit the state of Illinois.....18 USC, Chapter 44, Section 926 applies.

There should be little effort to get a judge to tell a cop, in Illinois, you should have know this law for a out-of-stater encounter.

But it only applies if you are legal in the originating state as well as your destination state that is what you keep missing - no court will rebuke a LEO for an arrest under state law. LEO are not required to know Federal Law and are not empowered (mostly) to enforce it. 18 USC 926A is simply an affirmative defense to a State charge.

The court ruled that a non-Illinois resident is not required to have a FOID to transit the state of Illinois
Of course. But the defendant still got arrested (legally) for it right. Had to go to court to get it cleared, right?
 

OC for ME

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But it only applies if you are legal in the originating state as well as your destination state that is what you keep missing - no court will rebuke a LEO for an arrest under state law. LEO are not required to know Federal Law and are not empowered (mostly) to enforce it. 18 USC 926A is simply an affirmative defense to a State charge.

Of course. But the defendant still got arrested (legally) for it right. Had to go to court to get it cleared, right?
True. But, LE can not violate federal law either, the supremacy clause. Arresting a citizen who comports himself with this federal law should bring a federal sanction, in theory. But, the current DoJ is unlikely to uphold this law.

However, there is court precedent in the state of Illinois that LE knows would have another arrest thrown out long before it got to the appellate level in Illinois. If not, a prosecutor would look very silly wasting tax payer money on a case that he now knows would fail an appeal and then he would lose a subsequent civil suit. That is one of the gol of the OCDO where unconstitutional laws are concerned, get rid of them via the legislative process or via the courts. Again, in Illinois, LE would be placing themselves in legal jeopardy.....they know better now.
 

notalawyer

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True. But, LE can not violate federal law either, the supremacy clause. Arresting a citizen who comports himself with this federal law should bring a federal sanction, in theory. But, the current DoJ is unlikely to uphold this law.

However, there is court precedent in the state of Illinois that LE knows would have another arrest thrown out long before it got to the appellate level in Illinois. If not, a prosecutor would look very silly wasting tax payer money on a case that he now knows would fail an appeal and then he would lose a subsequent civil suit. That is one of the gol of the OCDO where unconstitutional laws are concerned, get rid of them via the legislative process or via the courts. Again, in Illinois, LE would be placing themselves in legal jeopardy.....they know better now.

:eek:

Really?

You simply do not understand how this particular law works. There is no possible way a LEO or prosecutor could violate this law, it does not work that way. It is simply an affirmative defense to any state law regarding the transportation of firearms. The defendant still has to prove everything I stated in previous posts, in court! Or to the satisfaction of the prosecutor in order to get charges dropped.


then he would lose a subsequent civil suit.
Again, in Illinois, LE would be placing themselves in legal jeopardy.....they know better now.
No, no, no! Neither the LEO nor any prosecutor would be in any legal jeopardy, at all, for enforcing a State law! PERIOD!
Any civil suit would be immediately dismissed.
 
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