Entrapment at Seahawks games?

MattinWA · Aug 29, 2013

So I just saw a news story, where it appears Seattle police will be attending tonights Seahawks game undercover dressed as raiders fans, to ensure that everyone acts "civil".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any charges that result be an open and closed case of police entrapment?

Stretch · Aug 29, 2013

Sincerely doubt it.

Sent from my SCH-I545

MattinWA · Aug 29, 2013

I guess it would depend on the amount of "coaxing" preformed by the officers.

skeith5 · Aug 29, 2013

How is that entrapment? If the undercover cops are just there observing then there is no way it could be considered entrapment.

Cubex DE · Aug 29, 2013

MattinWA said:
So I just saw a news story, where it appears Seattle police will be attending tonights Seahawks game undercover dressed as raiders fans, to ensure that everyone acts "civil".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any charges that result be an open and closed case of police entrapment?

No.

Entrapment is when a cop convinces someone against their better judgement to commit a crime, then arrests them for it, like a cop convincing an otherwise innocent girl to accept money in exchange for sex when she normally would not.

golddigger14s · Aug 29, 2013

Link to Komo:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Undercover-cops-to-monitor-Seahawks-crowd-behavior-221662601.html

MattinWA · Aug 29, 2013

Well, they are looking to arrest people for a certain set if crimes (verbal assault, assault), crimes that would not have occurred had the police not been in an instigating set of apparel... I guess I misunderstood the law. My bad thx for clarifying... Seams like:

**** (a) The criminal design originated in the mind of law enforcement officials, or any person acting under their direction,

Would apply because they can reasonably expect the kinds of crimes they expect to be committed.?

countryclubjoe · Aug 30, 2013

Any Seattle police officer worth his weight in salt that wears an Oakland Raiders jersey or other Oakland Raiders clothing should be tarred and feathered.

CCJ

509rifas · Aug 30, 2013

Nope.

RCW 9A.16.070Entrapment.

(1) In any prosecution for a crime, it is a defense that:

**** (a) The criminal design originated in the mind of law enforcement officials, or any person acting under their direction, and

**** (b) The actor was lured or induced to commit a crime which the actor had not otherwise intended to commit.

**** (2) The defense of entrapment is not established by a showing only that law enforcement officials merely afforded the actor an opportunity to commit a crime.

If Seahawks fans were already so inclined to assault Raiders fans, that's not the LE's doing, but merely giving them the opportunity to do so. That why it's not entrapment when a dealer sells to a cop because they were already intending to sell something.

Difdi · Aug 30, 2013

MattinWA said:
So I just saw a news story, where it appears Seattle police will be attending tonights Seahawks game undercover dressed as raiders fans, to ensure that everyone acts "civil".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any charges that result be an open and closed case of police entrapment?

No, that's not entrapment.

Entrapment is where a police officer "helps" someone to commit a crime in some way and then arrests them for it. Since assaulting someone is already illegal and someone cheering for the visiting team does not justify attacking them, wearing Raider's team stuff isn't entrapment.

A good example of entrapment would be a police officer ordering someone off of a sidewalk and into the street. If they disobey they are disobeying a lawful order. If they obey, jaywalking.

Jeff Hayes · Aug 30, 2013

This is another reason to not go to these venues anymore IMHO.

I can see a fine line where a comment like we are going to kick your butts today getting someone in trouble. I also have seen Cops push the limit on what is lawful in an attempt to get someone to go too far. While lawful it is dirty pool IMHO. I am all for the Cops arresting folks if they see unlawful behavior but wearing the other teams jerseys to get a reaction out of someone in order to make an arrest only causes my respect level for the Cops to get a bit lower.

If a big enough problem already exists that justifies the special Cops at the game then why do they need to wear the visitors jerseys they should be able to simply go to a game in plain clothes and make arrests right and left sans the jerseys. This is simply a way to goad people and have fun on the job, and by fun I do not mean watching the game but playing their own game on the citizens that are paying their salary. Disgusting!

MattinWA · Aug 30, 2013

My point exactly jeff, and cops, being cops, aren't typically type b passive personalities, so how much instigation is being conducted on behalf of this new assignment. Come on you really think these police are just going to blend into the crowd and be silent the entire game and "observe"

Don't get me wrong, I don't in anyway condone fan on fan violence, but I think the police overstepped their limits a bit, I mean if anyone could believe that they would remain entirely passive the entire game sure, but face it, it's alpha male types at an American NFL football game...

sudden valley gunner · Aug 31, 2013

Violent crime has been going down the last few decades, get rid of cops nope shuffle them around into doing other things.

In my opinion pretty much all undercover work is entrapment, if it was know the person was a cop would people engage in activities that can get them arrested with said person?

Even J Edgar Hoover didn't like most those type of tactics.

Difdi · Aug 31, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
In my opinion pretty much all undercover work is entrapment, if it was know the person was a cop would people engage in activities that can get them arrested with said person?

The point is that you would do it if it wasn't a cop. Setting you up so that you can choose to break the law or choose not to isn't entrapment. To be entrapment the police would have to either coerce you to do it or do something to convince you to do something you normally would never do. It's a fine line at times, but it's there.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 31, 2013

Difdi said:
The point is that you would do it if it wasn't a cop. Setting you up so that you can choose to break the law or choose not to isn't entrapment. To be entrapment the police would have to either coerce you to do it or do something to convince you to do something you normally would never do. It's a fine line at times, but it's there.

I know the line, but here's the crux of the matter a cop under cover is going to go look for trouble that may not have been there if they didn't go looking for it.

It's shady as hell, and a blatant ugly face of the police state.

MattinWA · Aug 31, 2013

Difdi said:
The point is that you would do it if it wasn't a cop. Setting you up so that you can choose to break the law or choose not to isn't entrapment. To be entrapment the police would have to either coerce you to do it or do something to convince you to do something you normally would never do. It's a fine line at times, but it's there.

Sounds like a fuzzy line, instead of a fine line... Sounds like something that shouldn't be attempted without proper oversight.

Funny how the more citizens cry out for oversight, the more the police in this state seam to be driven "undercover". How Many unmarked city, county and state police cars do you see now? Why do the police feel the need to hide to build cases and arrests as SOP. While remaining inconspicuous you may get to pull off a few more speeding tickets, but if one citizen-in-need cannot identify an officer, well I think the trade off is not a worthwhile one... Most people not being criminals would receive civil benefit from clearly marked, and identical policing vehicles. Imho

Stretch · Aug 31, 2013

The issue isn't entrapment, the issue is there are "fans" who are blatantly step over the line of a playful ribbing. I don't like the Seahawks, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to go, enjoy a game, and risk my safety because of some @$$hole$ threatening me or my wife. My friends who have gone to support their teams have been threatened as well. We aren't there to start trouble, we are there to support our team that is in town.

It is a problem that SPD and Seahawks security need to deal with, and if wearing the jersey of the visiting team is all it takes for some "fan" to assault someone, haul the "fan" off. I and several of my friends won't be back to any Seattle game until it is resolved.

amlevin · Aug 31, 2013

Best seat in the house is in my living room in front of the "Plasma". I don't have someone spilling beer down my neck, jumping up in front of my view, my seat reclines, the food and drink is affordable, and I don't have to stand ankle deep in someone else's urine when I go relieve myself.

Last time I went to a live game was in Denver and some a-hole got tossed down on top of a bunch of seated fans. A couple went to the hospital with serious injuries all because someone left their brain home.

MattinWA · Aug 31, 2013

Just sounds like they are looking for trouble where it wouldn't be had the officers not been there looking for it to begin with. If elimininating crimes at seahawks games like assaults was the real goal, wouldn't that goal be better served by focusing on prevention, ie: increased presence of plain closed officers? If all these undercover patrols were plain clothed patrols, do you think a rowdy fan would be less likely to initiate an assault in the first place? Its the logic behind the decision that gets me, not so much the entrapment part (but I still think its borderline at best)

Jeff Hayes · Aug 31, 2013

amlevin said:
Best seat in the house is in my living room in front of the "Plasma". I don't have someone spilling beer down my neck, jumping up in front of my view, my seat reclines, the food and drink is affordable, and I don't have to stand ankle deep in someone else's urine when I go relieve myself.

Last time I went to a live game was in Denver and some a-hole got tossed down on top of a bunch of seated fans. A couple went to the hospital with serious injuries all because someone left their brain home.

+1, the last game I went to cost me about $250 for 2 of us.

Entrapment at Seahawks games?

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