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Thread: Nevada Firearms Coalition Screws up again

  1. #1
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    Nevada Firearms Coalition Screws up again

    Just got a email about the Rock the 2nd event at something called the Wild Fest. Come celebrate our rights it says. Well it turns out the Fest doesn't respect our rights. The link below is from the event web page. Before I looked at it I emailed them and the Rock the 2nd organizers asking if we can carry. I have not heard back from them yet, but it seems we cant carry according to the web page.


    http://nevadawildfest.com/event-info/rules-faqs


    Does no one ever vet these things?

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Just got a email about the Rock the 2nd event at something called the Wild Fest. Come celebrate our rights it says. Well it turns out the Fest doesn't respect our rights. The link below is from the event web page. Before I looked at it I emailed them and the Rock the 2nd organizers asking if we can carry. I have not heard back from them yet, but it seems we cant carry according to the web page.


    http://nevadawildfest.com/event-info/rules-faqs


    Does no one ever vet these things?
    I wrote them as well.

    The 2 things in their "rules" I cannot abide are the following:


    • Weapons - No weapons of any kind, e.g., firearms, knives, blades, explosives, mace, pepper spray, or chains, will be permitted on the premises.
    • Attendees subject to a search - For the safety of all guests, event attendees are subject to search at any time.


    Even if I could carry, I would not attend because of the second item. Someone puts a hand on me or mine is looking for a fight.

    I would suggest that emails be written to Don Turner, Pres. of NVFAC letting him know that the association should not be sponsoring events that are held in anti Bill of Rights locations. I am.

    don@nvfac.org


    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 08-30-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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    Don Turners response to me was this. "We were invited." Really? Invited? So you get an invite and cant take minute to at least check the web site?

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Response from Turner

    Tim,

    I appreciate your point of view and concerns.

    Sometimes we have to hold our nose for a larger goal. We don’t have the resources to put this on. We were invited, we asked to allow OC but the private property owners said no. When we get larger we can have our own celebration and do it our way, until then, sometimes we just hold our nose and move forward.

    The bottom line is the more excitement we can create for shooting, the larger our field of friends and volunteers grows. We have to have exciting things to stimulate people to participate. Without that, we will be a few voices crying in the wilderness. If we want to make positive changes, we need an army.

    Don

    He is entitled to his opinion, and as long as he is at the helm of the NVFAC, he gets to make the call.

    I don't agree.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    I would be very excited in anticipation of someone shoving his hands down my pants during a search.


    The ends justify the means, eh? Homey don't play that !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYvzVxJtYM

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    Tim,

    I appreciate your point of view and concerns.

    Sometimes we have to hold our nose for a larger goal. We don’t have the resources to put this on. We were invited, we asked to allow OC but the private property owners said no. When we get larger we can have our own celebration and do it our way, until then, sometimes we just hold our nose and move forward.

    The bottom line is the more excitement we can create for shooting, the larger our field of friends and volunteers grows. We have to have exciting things to stimulate people to participate. Without that, we will be a few voices crying in the wilderness. If we want to make positive changes, we need an army.

    Don

    He is entitled to his opinion, and as long as he is at the helm of the NVFAC, he gets to make the call.

    I don't agree.

    TBG

    He is so full of manure there isnt a shovel big enough to move it. Based on the past with them I do not for a second believe they asked for open carry, or any carry. I am tired of this when we get larger crap as well. We have shown among us here that one single voice can get things done.

    My next email to him is the one where I let them know I no longer want to be a part of the group.

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    I did get a note back from the American Liberty Coalition. He said they have no issue with carry. I then pointed out the info page from the event. His response was. Thanks for bringing that up. I will look into fixing it.

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    Turners response. I responded with a pretty long note. In that note I told him to stop being a bully about following the law. And told him if I thought for a second the group would stand with me I would do as he suggested. He pulled the same crap on me at the meeting when I stood up. Asking if I went to the cashman show because they dont allow guns. I told him NO because they dont respect our rights.

    I also let him know I wanted my name off the NVFAC books. I am done.



    Response"
    The Rio has private party rights and that is their rules.

    We didn’t say “no” because we were the invitees and not the organizers.

    When we have the resources to do our own LARGE celebration we can then make up the rules which will include OC.

    Until that time, sometimes, we must suck it up, and go with the flow.

    You register your OC handguns, so you have gone with the flow as well. When you OC a non-registered handgun in Clark County, then you can tell us about being 100% pure.

    We have to do what we can do to preserve our freedoms while holding our noses.

    Would it be better to not have this event and only respond to the anti-gunners? Or to suck it up and have a pro-second amendment LARGE celebration .

    We don’t beat down bad laws by refusing to participate. We beat down bad laws by getting more and more people involved until we have numbers to make our own laws. It’s called “shaping the battlefield.”

    We have been losing in Clark County for years and standing on 100% principles has not made it any better.

    That’s our position, and although we’d asked they allow OC, this is the best we could do for now."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Turners response. Response"
    The Rio has private party rights and that is their rules.

    We didn’t say “no” because we were the invitees and not the organizers.

    When we have the resources to do our own LARGE celebration we can then make up the rules which will include OC.

    Until that time, sometimes, we must suck it up, and go with the flow.

    You register your OC handguns, so you have gone with the flow as well. When you OC a non-registered handgun in Clark County, then you can tell us about being 100% pure.

    We have to do what we can do to preserve our freedoms while holding our noses.

    Would it be better to not have this event and only respond to the anti-gunners? Or to suck it up and have a pro-second amendment LARGE celebration .

    We don’t beat down bad laws by refusing to participate. We beat down bad laws by getting more and more people involved until we have numbers to make our own laws. It’s called “shaping the battlefield.”

    We have been losing in Clark County for years and standing on 100% principles has not made it any better.

    That’s our position, and although we’d asked they allow OC, this is the best we could do for now."
    What a foolish reply. He shares a common mind with the FoNRA rep, Mike Davis, who consistently picks venues that do not allow weapons.

    He must know that given an opportunity, pro-Second Amendment folks would volunteer to put together and staff a celebration. Of course, Turner and his former lackey Irwin, want to stay close to the corridors of power (for their own benefit) and do not want to raise too much of a ruckus. Hence his "go along to get along" stance.

    I carry everywhere that it is legal to do so; if the property owner states a "no weapons" policy, I will either carry concealed or skip patronizing that establishment. Except for commercial airplanes, I do not go anywhere where searches of my person are required or likely.

    I quit NVFAC over their tacit support of Bob Irwin's blathering to the anti-gun media as if he represented gun-owners, and haven't looked back. NVFAC had a very small role in fighting the anti-gun bills in the last legislative session. It was the concerted efforts of the people here and at nevadshooters.com who made all the difference.

    mbogo
    Last edited by mbogo470; 08-30-2013 at 07:16 PM.

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    They should be pushing these businesses to take down their signs or expect a civil rights lawsuit....even the threat would get some to take them down.

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    I have been keeping Don at NFAC informed about the NSCA lawsuit, and other things I have my fingers in. He even approached me about doing another lawsuit regarding Nevada
    s Point of Contact Status.... While the NFAC is better than what we have had in the past, the fundamental problem I see is that they take no stand, and want to "people please" I believe firmly that if it is important enough to organize about, it better be important enough to toe a fine line. I do not officially belong to the NFAC but i do not want to hurt their efforts either.

    "If they want to lead, they will first have to find the front."

    I still stick by may statements from a couple of years ago "if your rights are important to you, do not entrust them to someone else."

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They should be pushing these businesses to take down their signs or expect a civil rights lawsuit....even the threat would get some to take them down.
    Unfortunately the 2nd Amendment is not considered a "civil right." In fact they would simply tell you to have at it. These businesses are considered by SCOTUS to be "persons," and therefore they have "rights." Yes, you heard me correctly, corporations are people too according to the Supremes (not the 60's singing group with Diana Ross). This gives them the right to strip you of your natural or God given rights while on "their" property.

    We have had this discussion on here before and there are some who strongly agree with the SCOTUS decision. I believe that there is a big difference between a wholly owned mom and pop shop and a large corporation. A publicly held corporation is not a person but a group of stock holders. These are businesses that are public accommodations. They willingly invite the public in without a direct or individual invitation and therefore they should not have the right to make you leave your rights at the door.

    And so it goes...

    TBG
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    I like the idea of starting a corporation, (person in the eye of SCOTUS) and writing off the first 18 years of its life as a dependent on my taxes.... hmmm, think that will fly?

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I like the idea of starting a corporation, (person in the eye of SCOTUS) and writing off the first 18 years of its life as a dependent on my taxes.... hmmm, think that will fly?
    That is an interesting thought. More than just tongue in cheek babble. I will remember that for the next "discussion" on said topic... (you did make me laugh)

    TBG
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    I kept a promise and joined the Coalition when they fired that ass Bob Irwin. But at this point, I will not be renewing. Is that Don Turner's plan for growing?

    How do you expect to grow an organization of freedom-loving people when you are more concerned about recruiting them from freedom-waiving groups of people?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Who will NVFAC support?

    Now that all of our prayers, here in Clark County anyway, have been answered and Gestapo Doug is tossing in the towel, who will NVFAC support for Sheriff?

    I sure hope the association does every possible thing it can to help get us a good Sheriff in office. Every resource at its disposal will have to be used. In my opinion the association can make up for a lot of its lackluster performance by the effort it gives on this issue.

    This is important to all of NV so I hope some of you outside the sharp end will pitch some dough this way to help when the time comes.

    All of us will have to work tirelessly to help get one of the good guys in office. It will take money and time to get'r done.

    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 09-05-2013 at 11:11 PM.
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    The question is.... Who do you support for Sheriff, and why?

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    Here's a novel idea... "support" NO ONE for sheriff. Refuse to show up to vote no matter who's on the ballot. That would send a message, no? That's a tactic that should be employed for any and all "elected" politicians... sheriff included. And make no mistake, the sheriff is or becomes a POLITICIAN here in Clark County, no matter who he or she might be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Here's a novel idea... "support" NO ONE for sheriff. Refuse to show up to vote no matter who's on the ballot. That would send a message, no? That's a tactic that should be employed for any and all "elected" politicians... sheriff included. And make no mistake, the sheriff is or becomes a POLITICIAN here in Clark County, no matter who he or she might be.
    I have always been and still am for having a "none of the above" on the ballet. If there is no clear winner then all candidates are tossed out and a new slate is proposed and a new election held.

    One of the biggest problems we have in this country is apathy. It is why we are where we are. If we want true changes in this country it is going to happen on the local level. If I don't participate then I deserve what I get. In life you are part of the solution or part of the problem. As my grand pappy used to tell me, "all you get from sitting on the fence is splinters in your butt."

    TBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    I have always been and still am for having a "none of the above" on the ballet. If there is no clear winner then all candidates are tossed out and a new slate is proposed and a new election held.

    One of the biggest problems we have in this country is apathy. It is why we are where we are. If we want true changes in this country it is going to happen on the local level. If I don't participate then I deserve what I get. In life you are part of the solution or part of the problem. As my grand pappy used to tell me, "all you get from sitting on the fence is splinters in your butt."

    TBG
    Not voting is not sitting on the fence. Problem is most believe voting is what makes "us" who we "are"... democratic and all. That's the problem. When most see that voting simply empowers those who have "authority" over us, then not voting will make a difference. The "will" of the people will take a form that is definitely not "sitting on the fence."

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Not voting is not sitting on the fence. Problem is most believe voting is what makes "us" who we "are"... democratic and all. That's the problem. When most see that voting simply empowers those who have "authority" over us, then not voting will make a difference. The "will" of the people will take a form that is definitely not "sitting on the fence."
    Your logic escapes me. Your "will" means nothing unless you push for it. You want people to not participate allowing a very small minority command over your life? How does that enforce your "will"? That is exactly what we have now because of apathy. How do you ever win in that situation? When the minority rules the majority by passive approval of the majority the only way left to make a change for those who really care is with great violence. Let's remember that the American Revolution was fought by less than 20% of the population. I'd prefer to try it the non violent way first.

    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 09-06-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    Your logic escapes me. Your "will" means nothing unless you push for it. You want people to not participate allowing a very small minority command over your life? How does that enforce your "will"? That is exactly what we have now because of apathy. How do you ever win in that situation? When the minority rules the majority by passive approval of the majority the only way left to make a change for those who really care is with great violence. Let's remember that the American Revolution was fought by less than 20% of the population. I'd prefer to try it the non violent way first.

    TBG
    My "logic" is that voting simply puts another "ruler" in place... YOU may "like" that "ruler," but a "ruler" he/she still is... with the "superstition" of "authority" to rule... with no moral authority to do so. No person or persons have any moral authority to rule over another or others, whether it be by a "democratic" process or otherwise. That is a reality that most can't comprehend... but more are coming to that realization. When the scales tip to that reality, a new age will be forthcoming and it won't be the result of the ballot box. It doesn't require "violence," simply "disengagement."

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    The non violent thing to do is to not vote! When you vote, you are initiating a sense of authority to someone who is trying to control otherwise free people. that control is produced through "threats and violence."

    Participation in the system is what leads to bloodshed, it has happened consistently throughout history.

    Voting is perhaps one of the MOST violent things that you can do. It tacitly "authorizes" force against others for non violent, and victimless acts. The power mongers, when voted in believe they can do things no one else can. Examples below:

    • Take a portion of your earnings, utilizing threats and violence.
    • Design "rules" that are enforced through violence. (whether through the legislature or the judicial bench)
    • Send the military into peoples homes in the middle of the night to look for "leafy vegetable like substances."
    • Set up road blocks to stop every driver in hopes of finding a small percentage in violation of the rules made up by the folks who received votes.
    • Send your children to go initiate violence throughout the world.
    • Utilizing the Draft (selective service) for the violent acts above despite the constitutions clear prohibition on indentured servitude.


    Just a few examples of the violence perpetuated by "authorizing" people to control us.
    History shows that nearly everyone who is given this type of authority by the vote of the people causes violence to be initiated against another who has victimized nobody. In other words, humans cannot handle that type of responsibility, it has been demonstrated through the ages, and to keep giving people power over us, is insanity in its finest form.

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    Hello, DTOM... I was waiting for you to "show up." As you say, voting is a collective means by which to incite violence against one's fellow man... plain and simple.

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    While 'not voting' may give the person doing it some level of 'feel like I am making a statement,' all it really does is voluntarily disenfranchise that person. Those who do not follow that 'not vote' will be left to make the selection without those who are making their statement. IOW, it is a useless gesture.


    But, that is far afield from the thread subject, which hinges upon disagreeing about methods of activism.
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-06-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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