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Thread: The RIGHT to travel

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    The RIGHT to travel

    I am creating this to move all RTT discussion to it's own dedicated thread.

    I am starting with this news story.
    http://news.antiwar.com/2013/08/29/i...el-is-a-right/

    In Blow to ‘No Fly’ List, US Judge Rules Air Travel Is a Right
    Precedent Could Allow Fliers to Contest Travel Bans
    by Jason Ditz, August 29, 2013
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    Though the case itself is still far from over, a major victory was scored for opponents of the US “no fly” list when US District Judge Anna Brown ruled that the ability to travel internationally by airplane is a constitutionally protected right.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    There have been other cases ~ we have a right to travel AND choose the mode

    so this is no surprise ...

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    The OP only cited an article, not a case. A later post cited a case, but nowhere in that ruling could I find that the court ruled that air travel is a right.

    Can someone support the assertion that a court has ruled that air travel is a right?

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    Plenty of cases concerning the right to travel. I would not want to cite specific cases when so many are available.

    Google scholar is your friend. I'm not a legal secretary.

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    First of all, I am not addressing you, troll. You ain't worth getting into a discussion with. I was addressing the OP and the second poster, as should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence based on the posts I discussed--but is clearly not obvious to you.

    Second, I am specifically asking for support of the specific contention that a "US Judge Rules Air Travel Is a Right."

    Why don't you let the adults talk?

    Moving on from your juvenile distraction.

    Can someone (one of the adults around here) provide support for that specific contention?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    First of all, I am not addressing you,
    OK your highness , sorry to have bothered you.

    Thanks for playing though !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The OP only cited an article, not a case. A later post cited a case, but nowhere in that ruling could I find that the court ruled that air travel is a right.

    Can someone support the assertion that a court has ruled that air travel is a right?
    The thread was created for discussion to shunt this level of discussion from being off topic on other threads and to suggest a place for moderators to re-condense this discussion onto it's own thread when brought up. I believed that the article would be a fun one to point for 'kick off.'

    IF you really wanted some research I could link you do the research some legislators have done on this topic.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    The following was quoted in the thread as though true, yet no cite for this very specific statement has been provided.

    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The following was quoted in the thread as though true, yet no cite for this very specific statement has been provided.

    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.
    You've failed to cite other requests, why should I even humor yours?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them." However, the Supreme Court did not invest the federal government with the authority to protect freedom of movement. Under the "privileges and immunities" clause, this authority was given to the states, a position the Court held consistently through the years in cases such as Ward v. Maryland, 79 U.S. 418 (1871), the Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873) and United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfield_v._Coryell

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_v._Virginia
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-31-2013 at 06:56 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I have the right to east spaghetti ... yet I cannot find a case that says I can.
    That's a privilege because it's not enumerated.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Someone quoted the following bolded statement as though it were true. I am asking for a cite to a case that the claim says exists.

    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Confused!!

    I do not know why a few are "playing" with eye95. All he is asking for is a cite, and what does he get? Senseless responses and talk about "spaghetti." It would be wise to give him a cite. I, also, would like a cite to read. I am always amused by those who can dish it out, but can't take it. Come on, guys. Let's work together, and be more concerned with laws and rulings that hurt the open carry cause.

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    The OP is of the right to travel, of which there is one arguably.

    The thread has been hijacked and narrowed to the demand for an opinion/decision on the right to air travel based on a related civil rights case in which the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals judge has said that she doesn't know when she will issue her opinion/decision.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    I do not know why a few are "playing" with eye95. All he is asking for is a cite, and what does he get? Senseless responses and talk about "spaghetti." It would be wise to give him a cite. I, also, would like a cite to read. I am always amused by those who can dish it out, but can't take it. Come on, guys. Let's work together, and be more concerned with laws and rulings that hurt the open carry cause.
    Thank you. I am not even contending that such a cite does not exist nor that it is not controlling. That the judge asserted that air travel is a right might well be a direct and accurate quotation from a controlling ruling. It could also be a conclusion of the author of the article. It could be from a dissenting opinion. It could be from a lower-court ruling that has been overturned. There are dozens of possibilities how that particular statement was made by the writer and then quoted here.

    Intelligent discussion of the point is only possible if we know the provenance of the quotation.

    Kinda why we have a rule around here about supporting assertions about the law.

    Anyway, if they keep ducking their responsibility to cite, I will simply keep asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The OP is of the right to travel, of which there is one arguably.

    The thread has been hijacked and narrowed to the demand for an opinion/decision on the right to air travel based on a related civil rights case in which the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals judge has said that she doesn't know when she will issue her opinion/decision.
    The demand for the cite is based on a quote in the OP. Feel free to continue to assert that asking for a cite for something in the OP is somehow a "hijacking." That assertion looks pretty damned foolish.

    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Re: The RIGHT to travel

    Without taking anyone's side, what's wrong with sharing the info if you have it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    Without taking anyone's side, what's wrong with sharing the info if you have it?
    One can't share what isn't there.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    If a judge has "ruled," there IS a case, so there IS something to cite. If there is no such case, then the assertion of a ruling is false.

    More ducking.

    So, once again, asked as simply as humanly possible, in what case did a "US Judge Rule[] Air Travel Is a Right"? Cite please. One single cite. Name the case or, preferably, link the one very specific decision.

    Keep ducking, and I'll keep asking.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    According to the article linked in the OP, I believe that the judge has overstepped constitutional authority by implying that international travel by commercial aircraft is a constitutional right. There are alternate ways to travel internationally. One can drive into Canada and Mexico. One can board a ship and sail between continents. One can charter a private aircraft. The law does not preclude travel simply by being included on a no-fly list. Being able to travel on a commercial aircraft is a convenience.

    "According to the article, the judge has not ruled finally on the case, having given the litigants until September 9th to provide additional testimony, so the "conclusions" reached are at best premature.

    But the judge said she was not ready to decide on a proper remedy in the case, suggesting the answer hinged on whether the plaintiffs had an adequate avenue of appeal.

    "The court is not yet able to resolve on the current record whether the judicial-review process is a sufficient, post-deprivation process under the ... Constitution," she wrote.

    She gave both sides until September 9 to recommend a process "to better develop the record" so she can complete her ruling."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97S1B820130829

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    The problem is that neither the article nor the OP link the ruling.

    So we have no idea whether or not a judge truly ruled the way the headline indicates.

    It could simply be the erroneous conclusion of the article's author. Until someone decides to post a link to the ruling, rather than swallowing the conclusion whole, we won't know whether a judge even said such a thing, let alone whether the "ruling" is controlling.

    So, discussing the statement is kind of pointless until we can read the "ruling."

    Too many people read something they want to agree with, so they don't bother to check out its truth or its provenance. That is intellectual laziness.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    How sad so many want to wait for government to decide what a right is.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Thelemites believe "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" What rights remain, then, to be decided?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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