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Thread: Need clarification on some signage in Portsmouth

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Need clarification on some signage in Portsmouth

    Need some clarification on what is likely illegal signage. New signs at Portsmouth's Operations Center on Frederick Blvd. https://maps.google.com/?ll=36.82449...05906&t=h&z=18



    This is where auctions are held, the police impounds cars, the public can come to notify officials of problems with the waste disposal, issues with public buildings, etc. I can only imagine it's public property in the same sense as a library or city hall. I don't believe there's any justification for random searches nor do I believe they have the ability to ban weapons here.

    It's also being said the employees are being told they can no longer carry weapons in their vehicles. I doubt that's the case either.

    Parking Lot Storage Laws (Local Public Employees)

    15.2-915. Control of Firearms; Applicability to Authorities and Local Governmental Agencies.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

    Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. However, no locality shall adopt any workplace rule, other than for the purposes of a community services board or behavioral health authority as defined in 37.2-100, that prevents an employee of that locality from storing at that locality's workplace a lawfully possessed firearm and ammunition in a locked personal, private motor vehicle. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in 9.1-101, from acting within the scope of his duties.

    The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail, juvenile detention facility, or state-governed entity, department, or agency.

    B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.

    C. In addition to any other relief provided, the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging (i) an ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section or (ii) an administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.

    D. For purposes of this section, "workplace" means "workplace of the locality."
    Can any of you offer any additional clarification or arguments to support the signs?
    Last edited by Kevin108; 08-30-2013 at 04:32 PM.

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    if the public is allowed there, they can carry guns there - notify Portsmouth about preemption statute and employee storage rights statute and demand that they remove the sign - and of course, nobody is subject to search just because they want to search you.

    After you do this, update this thread, thanks.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Good call! And in spite of his being an attorney, Mike is right.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    You should also explain to them that an occasional period at the end of the sentence would be nice too.
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Gotta follow this one to it's natural conclusion - one way or t'other.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    You should also explain to them that an occasional period at the end of the sentence would be nice too.
    Jim's right. Had the periods been properly placed, we would all feel a bit less threatened should some employee or authorized visitor, while having been admitted to no trespassing, approach us in a premises vehicle, as they are not allowed to have a weapon on it. (But having disallowed, for example, pintle-mounted machine guns, are the employees or authorized visitors allowed to have weapons that are not mounted on the vehicle? I'd hate to think I was "home free" and suddenly be confronted by an RPG wielded by an authorized visitor.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    A friend submitted a request for corrective action to the city manager and city attorney. I'll keep you guys posted.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    You should also explain to them that an occasional period at the end of the sentence would be nice too.
    No kidding. On seeing the sign, my first thought was that punctuation must have cost too much extra.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Re: Need clarification on some signage in Portsmouth

    Today they were replaced with standard No Trespassing signs.

    Last edited by Kevin108; 09-04-2013 at 06:51 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
    Today they were replaced with standard No Trespassing signs.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
    Today they were replaced with standard No Trespassing signs.
    Dots stupider.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
    Today they were replaced with standard No Trespassing signs.

    I note the continued lack of punctuation.

    Does that sign say "No Trespassing" and "Violators will be prosecuted" or does it simply say "No trespassing violators will be prosecuted"?

    If the latter, then why bother with a sign at all if you aren't going to prosecute?
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    That was quick. Good Job!

    I think the punctuation issue is based on some Federal regulation about all signage being similar and mandates the all caps and no periods/commas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    I think the punctuation issue is based on some Federal regulation about all signage being similar and mandates the all caps and no periods/commas.
    ding ding ding. Winner.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    That was quick. Good Job!

    I think the punctuation issue is based on some Federal regulation about all signage being similar and mandates the all caps and no periods/commas.
    I don't know if that is true or not, but it would certainly seem to make sense that the government would require communication to be as confusing and ambiguous as possible...

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I don't know if that is true or not, but it would certainly seem to make sense that the government would require communication to be as confusing and ambiguous as possible...

    TFred
    It is.

    It comes from the FHA's "Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices"

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbuck View Post
    It is.

    It comes from the FHA's "Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices"
    FHA? As in Federal Housing Authority?

    If anything I would have expected DOT. (You know, the guys who can't tell the difference between FLAMABLE and INFLAMABLE.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    FHA? As in Federal Housing Authority?
    Federal Highway Administration.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbuck View Post
    Federal Highway Administration.
    A "No Trespassing Sign" isn't a highway sign. Why use the FHA as a model?

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    My guess? It's made at the city sign shop, which makes all the other signs.

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