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Thread: Doing more than nothing

  1. #1
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    Doing more than nothing

    You accuse me of advocating illegal activity and then lock my thread. Notice that your fear is causing paranoia and shutting down my first amendment rights. I'm not advocating any illegal activity.

    You are living in fear and contributing to the problem. Read the damn first amendment--and the second. This is the last place I thought would be living in the most extreme fear.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Way of The Future View Post
    You accuse me of advocating illegal activity and then lock my thread. Notice that your fear is causing paranoia and shutting down my first amendment rights. I'm not advocating any illegal activity.

    You are living in fear and contributing to the problem. Read the damn first amendment--and the second. This is the last place I thought would be living in the most extreme fear.
    I have no clue what thread you are referring to, but you obviously do not understand how the Constitution works.

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    Not an auspicious start for a new member.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    First, having read the original thread, the forum rule you violated was stated in the closing post. You should read it, and if you haven't done so, read the rest of the forum rules. Actually, even if you have read them, you should re-read them as it appears you need a refresher.

    Second, your first amendment rights end where private property begins. This forum is private property, and has established rules of conduct for participants, like me, and you, to follow. If you do not like them, feel free to seek out a forum more to your liking.
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    Anything I post in these forums is my personal opinion formed by my own interpretation of the topic.
    IANAL and anything I say is not intended to be nor should it be taken as legal advice.

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    Or, start your own forum. You can make your own rules or have none.

    Ain't Liberty wonderful. It means that John and Mike can start a site with whatever rules they choose. So can you.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    With all of the jacked up alterations to our right to bare arms ....
    Where is your outrage over the control of sunscreen?

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...12#post1979312

    For the record, I agree with another poster that what you wrote might not be an actual violation of the rule cited. Knowing how careful OCDO needs to be in order to avoid even appearing to advocate illegal behavior I can understand the warning you were given. You had your chance to discuss and clarify with the mods/administrators what you were trying to say. It appears you chose not to.

    If you are leaving, please do not let the door slam behind you.

    stay safe.
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Well, lookee here!

    This thread did not get closed down - a mod just moved it to a more appropriate spot.

    Could it be there is only a complex and no persecution taking place?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, lookee here!

    This thread did not get closed down - a mod just moved it to a more appropriate spot.

    Could it be there is only a complex and no persecution taking place?

    stay safe.
    Actually, his thread was locked yesterday. Its title is something like "WTF Rediculous". And, it was still locked later this morning or afternoon when I checked.

    I commented on the thread about it being more helpful if the thread title had contained more information.

    To his credit, he took responsibility for the lack of information in the thread title.

    A little while later Grapeshot locked the thread without really reading the OP. When I saw the ***moderator's reason for locking, I re-read the OP to be sure I hadn't missed something the first time.

    I hadn't.

    The OP was clearly an observation that it was safer rights-wise to be crook. There was no doubt at all that OP was not an advocacy for illegal conduct. There isn't even room for the excuse that it could have been worded differently. Grapeshot missed the mark, plain and simple.

    I personally PMd Grapeshot last evening about it. This is why I checked it this morning--to see whether it was still locked after I'd PMd Grapeshot.

    Not sure why the ***moderator waited until now to unlock the thread.

    Of course, all the ***moderator needed to do to avoid this public highlighting of his mistake was to acknowledge the mistake--not even apologize--just acknowledge the mistake in the mis-locked thread.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-02-2013 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Personal insults deleted
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
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    I thought that was another thread that is now gone.

    I seem to recall that he started this thread in response to the other being locked. At one point in time he had started two threads.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Eye95 - point!

    Citizen - a miss. Even though he was pretty spot-on about the closed thread (which is still there where it was first linked to -
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...12#post1979312 )

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Eye95 - point!

    Citizen - a miss. Even though he was pretty spot-on about the closed thread (which is still there where it was first linked to -
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...12#post1979312 )

    stay safe.
    Skidmark--a miss with a brandished, unloaded finger. (See, others can make unsubstantiated comments, too.)


    Here's the thread I was talking about. The thread where the mismoderator inaccurately accused the OPer of advocating illegal activity. The thread the moderator locked and then later unlocked: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ediculousness&

    So, even though the OPer commented mid-thread as linked by Skidmark, above. The OPer actually had a separate thread locked.

    So, maybe ol' empty-finger can explain the miss he attributes to me.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-02-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ScottFree's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm confused.
    Who's on first?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottFree View Post
    SNIP Who's on first?
    Yes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRR...=TLNwqSljzWjvI The audience reaction is almost as funny as the routine itself.




    Here's Johnny Carson portraying Ronald Reagan in a skit using the same device. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2IdZSuP0kA
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-02-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Actually, his thread was locked yesterday. Its title is something like "*** Rediculous". And, it was still locked later this morning or afternoon when I checked.

    I commented on the thread about it being more helpful if the thread title had contained more information.

    To his credit, he took responsibility for the lack of information in the thread title.

    A little while later Grapeshot locked the thread without really reading the OP. When I saw the ***moderator's reason for locking, I re-read the OP to be sure I hadn't missed something the first time.

    I hadn't.

    The OP was clearly an observation that it was safer rights-wise to be crook. There was no doubt at all that OP was not an advocacy for illegal conduct. There isn't even room for the excuse that it could have been worded differently. Grapeshot missed the mark, plain and simple.

    I personally PMd Grapeshot last evening about it. This is why I checked it this morning--to see whether it was still locked after I'd PMd Grapeshot.

    Not sure why the ***moderator waited until now to unlock the thread.

    Of course, all the ***moderator needed to do to avoid this public highlighting of his mistake was to acknowledge the mistake--not even apologize--just acknowledge the mistake in the mis-locked thread.
    To your undying embarrassment, it would seem that not only can you not post in disagreement w/o being insulting and you either have trouble recognizing the form of a locked thread or you think that the history of a thread cannot be reviewed - hence maybe some will believe you.

    That thread was unlocked for a few moments to edit the title and content, immediately relocked and will remain locked. I deleted reference to the F-bomb from the title which you conveniently left out - ("Last edited by Grapeshot Yesterday at 08:14 PM: Reason: F-bomb & rule 15 violation")

    That the OP may not have meant to come across the way he did was considered, but the bottom line is he stated "it's far safer to be" to an illegal act. You considered it an "observation" - I considered it an endorsement. The OP wasn't slammed, harshly criticized, or (gasp) banned - he was corrected and the rules cited.

    And surprise this wasn't the only time and place. The reference that Skidmark made previously was not to a thread, but correctly to a post by this OP on another thread with the exact same verbiage - that post was deleted - you can't read it but it is still available to the administration. That Citizen, sir, is how we do things here. There are no secrets from the Administrator.

    Unfortunately, it appears obvious the OP has not read Forum Rules as is indicated by his opening post on this thread. I invite him to read the rules, participate on this forum responsibly. I invite you to do the same.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-03-2013 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Clarified edit time etc.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Way of The Future View Post
    You accuse me of advocating illegal activity and then lock my thread. Notice that your fear is causing paranoia and shutting down my first amendment rights. I'm not advocating any illegal activity.

    You are living in fear and contributing to the problem. Read the damn first amendment--and the second. This is the last place I thought would be living in the most extreme fear.
    Here's a "little something" you overlooked in your outrage over the "violation of" your "first amendment rights". While it is true that you have the right to state whatever is on your mind, nobody is required by 1A to provide you with a platform from which to conduct that speech. There are very very few venues which do not have some reasonable restrictions on the social acceptability of the words we choose to express our thoughts. It appears you discovered that by accident - as others have suggested, "READ THE RULES". Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 09-03-2013 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Typo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    To your undying embarrassment, it would seem that not only can you not post in disagreement w/o being insulting and you either have trouble recognizing the form of a locked thread or you think that the history of a thread cannot be reviewed - hence maybe some will believe you.

    That thread was unlocked for a few moments to edit the title and content, immediately relocked and will remain locked. I deleted reference to the F-bomb from the title which you conveniently left out - ("Last edited by Grapeshot Yesterday at 08:14 PM: Reason: F-bomb & rule 15 violation")

    That the OP may not have meant to come across the way he did was considered, but the bottom line is he stated "it's far safer to be" to an illegal act. You considered it an "observation" - I considered it an endorsement. The OP wasn't slammed, harshly criticized, or (gasp) banned - he was corrected and the rules cited.

    And surprise this wasn't the only time and place. The reference that Skidmark made previously was not to a thread, but correctly to a post by this OP on another thread with the exact same verbiage - that post was deleted - you can't read it but it is still available to the administration. That Citizen, sir, is how we do things here. There are no secrets from the Administrator.

    Unfortunately, it appears obvious the OP has not read Forum Rules as is indicated by his opening post on this thread. I invite him to read the rules, participate on this forum responsibly. I invite you to do the same.
    Oh, silly me. You see, when Skidmark wrote the words, "this thread", I somehow mistook it for a thread not a post.

    And, thanks for confessing you can't tell the difference between advocacy and observation. Or, don't want to.

    "The OP wasn't harshly..." What kind of Orwellian double-speak is that? You locked his thread! A new guy! Even if you did have a concern that some few readers might take his comment as advocacy, you could have just asked him to reword it to make it less open to misinterpretation. But, no. You decided to lock his thread. Way to go.

    And, yeah. Public commentary is gonna be my rule. I tried PMing you. You ignored it. Your mismoderations are public; expecting others to be silent or private is a violation of human nature. People protest. Either improve your judgement or get used to public comment. You can either back them up with debate well written and properly justified or you can't.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-03-2013 at 11:00 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, silly me. You see, when Skidmark wrote the words, "this thread", I somehow mistook it for a thread not a post.

    And, thanks for confessing you can't tell the difference between advocacy and observation. Or, don't want to.

    "The OP wasn't harshly..." What kind of Orwellian double-speak is that? You locked his thread! A new guy! Even if you did have a concern that some few readers might take his comment as advocacy, you could have just asked him to reword it to make it less open to misinterpretation. But, no. You decided to lock his thread. Way to go.

    And, yeah. Public commentary is gonna be my rule. I tried PMing you. You ignored it. Your ***moderations are public; expecting others to be silent or private is a violation of human nature. People protest. Either improve your judgement or get used to public comment. You can either back them up with debate well written and properly justified or you can't.
    Indeed "silly you" the link itself explained the correct relationship quite well. Here it is with the operative words in red and bolded.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...12#post1979312 ) So you see it was an individual post. You can't blame Skidmark for your lack of knowledge or comprehension.

    A Moderator's judgement is subject solely to the action/response of the Administrator. That you choose to ignore that and the correct way to report it (previously advised on several occasions) and continue to make a public spectacle on a very public forum will work to your detriment.

    I have pointedly suggested before that you would seem to like neither rules nor moderation not in accordance with your personal definitions. You continue to demonstrate that capacity.

    Be advised that the editing/deletion begins anew of such posts and/or threads. The responsible administration of this forum will not be compromised by what you think it should be. Report my moderation properly properly if you think it necessary or not at all.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-03-2013 at 11:39 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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