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Thread: firearm/medical marijuana with green card issue

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    firearm/medical marijuana with green card issue

    I have a nephew that lived in Michigan. He was pulled over by state police.
    He has a up to date green card for marijuana, he has a valid Michigan CWP
    Anyway he was on his way home from work when the LEO pulled him over
    said he smelled marijuana and search the car. The LEO charged him with
    possession of firearm and marijuana even though he had not used any
    marijuana that day also trying for driving under the influence as well.
    They took his firearm and his medical card and he is awaiting court.
    A little input would be great.

    The is a site I found on the subject and a court ruling too ..... http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/michiga...using-the-drug
    Last edited by Rick H; 09-04-2013 at 10:08 PM. Reason: added site
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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Having a medical marijuana card makes you a prohibited possessor with regard to purchase of a firearm or ammunition from the Federal perspective

    http://www.atf.gov/files/press/relea...l-purposes.pdf

    pot or guns pick one.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I cannot give you a cite or specifics due to the personal information involved.
    I know first hand of a similar case: Genessee County..
    Stopped for a supposed minor traffic violation..
    Has a green card and possession of 2oz of pot in the car trunk.
    Has a CPL and carrying a .45.

    Charges were:
    1. Possession of marijuana with intent to distribute and sell (2yr minimum sentence)
    2. Carrying a firearm during the commission of a felony (5yr minimum sentence)

    After $12,000.00 and a plea; he got 1yr county jail on the workout program...
    As a now convicted felon, he can no longer possess a firearm of any kind.

    As stated, pot or guns.. pick one.

    OR... have a good lawyer and some very deep pockets.

    Best of luck with his situation and I hope he gets things worked out.

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    Regular Member Xanaseyr's Avatar
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    How did the cops in these cases know about the pistols?

    It sounds to me like 28.425f compels those who are unlawful users of or addicted to controlled substances to self-incriminate if they also have a CPL and are stopped while carrying concealed or in a vehicle.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanaseyr View Post
    How did the cops in these cases know about the pistols?

    It sounds to me like 28.425f compels those who are unlawful users of or addicted to controlled substances to self-incriminate if they also have a CPL and are stopped while carrying concealed or in a vehicle.
    You are required to disclose possession of a firearm due to the CPL requirements.
    The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
    Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.
    He had the misguided opinion that he was legal under state law and therefore SAFE from federal prosecution

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    Having a medical marijuana card makes you a prohibited possessor with regard to purchase of a firearm or ammunition from the Federal perspective

    http://www.atf.gov/files/press/relea...l-purposes.pdf

    pot or guns pick one.
    Is he being charged with a Federal offense?

    This matters.

    Also, supposedly the Fedgov is going to start respecting states' rights. Meaning your post may be increasingly irrelevant.

    Anyway, the Fedgov has no authority in either arena, whereas every individual has an absolute right to self-defense, and to medical freedom.

    Pick freedom.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
    Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.
    Cite? There is ample precedent that lawful behavior cannot provide RAS for a crime.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Cite? There is ample precedent that lawful behavior cannot provide RAS for a crime.
    I'm not saying they had a right to search.
    That is what they told him.
    Because he had a green card that gave them cause to search the vehicle since pot is still illegal under federal statutes and he was carrying a gun.
    Because of the 2oz. of pot they charged him with a felony charge of distribution and sales.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    Because he had a green card that gave them cause to search the vehicle since pot is still illegal under federal statutes and he was carrying a gun.
    Did they know he was carrying a gun?

    Are Michigan law enforcement officers permitted to enforce Federal laws?

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Did they know he was carrying a gun?

    Are Michigan law enforcement officers permitted to enforce Federal laws?
    CPL holders are required to disclose that they are carrying when detained by any officer.
    As far as enforcing federal laws by state/local agencies, I don't know but they hit him with two felony charges.
    I wasn't told what the plea deal was so I don't know what his record reflects other than a felony conviction.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    CPL holders are required to disclose that they are carrying when detained by any officer.
    As far as enforcing federal laws by state/local agencies, I don't know but they hit him with two felony charges.
    I wasn't told what the plea deal was so I don't know what his record reflects other than a felony conviction.
    As I seem to recall (I moved a couple years ago), in California, for instance, police can't make arrests for violations of Federal law. To accomplish that, they'd have to basically call the relevant Federal LEOs. And then, as I seem to recall, precisely because of the conflict between that practice and the state's mandate to allow medical marijuana, the police were told by the state courts that they would no longer be permitted to call in Federal LEOs over acts legal under State law. (I'm not going to cite this now, but this is all correct if my memory serves me.)

    Of course, with the duty to notify, that may be irrelevant if Michigan state law still prohibits simultaneous possession of medical marijuana and a firearm.

    However, there are certainly other states where medical marijuana patients can buy and possess firearms and medical marijuana (or even non-medical, now) and local law enforcement basically can't do a thing about it, even though Federal law still prohibits doing so.

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Did they know he was carrying a gun?

    Are Michigan law enforcement officers permitted to enforce Federal laws?
    My nephew made a wide right turn from a gas station then was pulled over, at this point the cop said he that's when the search started . Cop was then notified of med card. Search would have been illegal in my opinion at that point because the cop was notified of the card and legal possession.
    The supreme court just held that driving under the influence was legal because there is no way to prove the level of the substance. So to that point card legal, possession legal,search not legal.plus he was not under the influence at the time, only in possession of 2 grams. Oh the firearm was under seat locked in a box but loaded..
    PEOPLE v KOON was the case that was similar and the high court threw it out .
    Last edited by Rick H; 09-05-2013 at 04:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    My nephew made a wide right turn from a gas station then was pulled over, at this point the cop said he that's when the search started . Cop was then notified of med card. Search would have been illegal in my opinion at that point because the cop was notified of the card and legal possession.
    The supreme court just held that driving under the influence was legal because there is no way to prove the level of the substance. So to that point card legal, possession legal,search not legal.plus he was not under the influence at the time, only in possession of 2 grams. Oh the firearm was under seat locked in a box but loaded..
    PEOPLE v KOON was the case that was similar and the high court threw it out .
    His lawyer should be able to understand the new rulings and cases and laws regarding the case.

    Is he represented by an attorney? If so, have you told your nephew you have posted this thread?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Search was illegal, so was the seizure, independent of the search. Two laws apply in this case. MCL 333.26424, which states clearly that no person can be denied any right or privileged or any licensing authority based on the possession of the card or the product, and secondly MCL 333.26426, which states that possession of the card does NOT constitute probable cause.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...=mcl-333-26426

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...ight=marihuana

    It's a sates rights issue, the BATFE memo (opinion) is irrelevant. Constitutionally, the feds have their hands tied.
    This is my thinking on the matter, and practice has (surprisingly, perhaps) largely backed it up.

    Thanks for the Michigan law cites, too. I thought that might be the case. Looks like my suspicion that the search was illegal was correct.

    A similar thing happened to a passenger of mine, and we were both illegally searched. I still have a recording of the whole incident, somewhere. However, as they didn't arrest us nor even detain us very long, and as the search was fruitless (duh), there was no standing to sue.

    The dumbest thing this guy did was let the prosecution railroad him into a plea bargain over charges they could probably not even take to trial.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-05-2013 at 04:37 PM.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    You are required to disclose possession of a firearm due to the CPL requirements.
    The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
    Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.
    He had the misguided opinion that he was legal under state law and therefore SAFE from federal prosecution
    This got me thinking maybe this could be the case that will make 'shall immediately disclose' unconstitutional and get his charges dropped.
    Since it requires us to give up our 5TH amendment rights(Self-Incrimination Clause).
    Last edited by Golden Eagle; 09-05-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    What is/are the specific MCL#'s that your nephew was charged with?
    At the this time they have only charged yum with OUI. But they confiscated his firearm and green card. His court date for his arraignment was set for the 28th but was cancelled do to test was not back from lab.
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I'm surprised he hasn't had his CPL suspended or revoked for having the pot. Apparently gun boards have been deny people with medical marijuana cards.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    I'm going to go ahead and say this is just dumb all around. Pot isn't any worse then alcohol in my view and as far as I know you can be in possession of alcohol (i.e.taking it home from store) while carrying.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91 whiskey View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and say this is just dumb all around. Pot isn't any worse then alcohol in my view and as far as I know you can be in possession of alcohol (i.e.taking it home from store) while carrying.
    mostly true, but now, at this moment pot is not legal as beer is.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    mostly true, but now, at this moment pot is not legal as beer is.
    My point was that I think the two items should be treated the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91 whiskey View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and say this is just dumb all around. Pot isn't any worse then alcohol in my view and as far as I know you can be in possession of alcohol (i.e.taking it home from store) while carrying.
    So alcohol kills thousands and half kills many more, you think that is ok??

    Both just allow persons to escape reality and not face the facts, of life..

    How many thousands of taxpayers 'federal dollars' are spent on those two categories, pot and booze, before the user moves on to bigger and better stuff?
    Last edited by langenc; 09-11-2013 at 07:40 PM.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langenc View Post

    How many thousands of taxpayers 'federal dollars' are spent on those two categories, pot and booze, before the user moves on to bigger and better stuff?
    That is because people who think like that are followers to who is ever doing what to get high. I am drug free and have a drink here and there and have never said, "I need something better like drugs."
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langenc View Post
    So alcohol kills thousands and half kills many more, you think that is ok??

    Both just allow persons to escape reality and not face the facts, of life..

    How many thousands of taxpayers 'federal dollars' are spent on those two categories, pot and booze, before the user moves on to bigger and better stuff?
    Ignorance rears its ugly head.

    The "gateway" theory is facially specious, as it's essentially a form of "correlation implies causation".

    Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die

    The same thing applies to alcohol.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-11-2013 at 09:02 PM.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Ignorance rears its ugly head.

    The "gateway" theory is facially specious, as it's essentially a form of "correlation implies causation".

    http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/2...t Will Not Die

    The same thing applies to alcohol.
    +1
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Pot is a gateway to other drugs like sex is to homosexuality. Sometimes people choose to move on, but the initial fun isn't the reason.

    As for escaping reality, when you WANT to escape reality in a manner that doesn't hurt someone else, that's your choice. You might do it with alcohol, pot, hookers, or just sleeping. I don't care.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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