• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

firearm/medical marijuana with green card issue

Rick H

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
323
Location
Hoover, Alabama
I have a nephew that lived in Michigan. He was pulled over by state police.
He has a up to date green card for marijuana, he has a valid Michigan CWP
Anyway he was on his way home from work when the LEO pulled him over
said he smelled marijuana and search the car. The LEO charged him with
possession of firearm and marijuana even though he had not used any
marijuana that day also trying for driving under the influence as well.
They took his firearm and his medical card and he is awaiting court.
A little input would be great.

The is a site I found on the subject and a court ruling too ..... http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/michig...arijuana-users-can-drive-after-using-the-drug
 
Last edited:

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Unfortunately I cannot give you a cite or specifics due to the personal information involved.
I know first hand of a similar case: Genessee County..
Stopped for a supposed minor traffic violation..
Has a green card and possession of 2oz of pot in the car trunk.
Has a CPL and carrying a .45.

Charges were:
1. Possession of marijuana with intent to distribute and sell (2yr minimum sentence)
2. Carrying a firearm during the commission of a felony (5yr minimum sentence)

After $12,000.00 and a plea; he got 1yr county jail on the workout program...
As a now convicted felon, he can no longer possess a firearm of any kind.

As stated, pot or guns.. pick one.

OR... have a good lawyer and some very deep pockets.

Best of luck with his situation and I hope he gets things worked out.
 

Xanaseyr

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
37
Location
Jackson, MI
How did the cops in these cases know about the pistols?

It sounds to me like 28.425f compels those who are unlawful users of or addicted to controlled substances to self-incriminate if they also have a CPL and are stopped while carrying concealed or in a vehicle.
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
How did the cops in these cases know about the pistols?

It sounds to me like 28.425f compels those who are unlawful users of or addicted to controlled substances to self-incriminate if they also have a CPL and are stopped while carrying concealed or in a vehicle.

You are required to disclose possession of a firearm due to the CPL requirements.
The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.
He had the misguided opinion that he was legal under state law and therefore SAFE from federal prosecution
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Having a medical marijuana card makes you a prohibited possessor with regard to purchase of a firearm or ammunition from the Federal perspective

http://www.atf.gov/files/press/rele...all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf

pot or guns pick one.

Is he being charged with a Federal offense?

This matters.

Also, supposedly the Fedgov is going to start respecting states' rights. Meaning your post may be increasingly irrelevant.

Anyway, the Fedgov has no authority in either arena, whereas every individual has an absolute right to self-defense, and to medical freedom.

Pick freedom.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.

Cite? There is ample precedent that lawful behavior cannot provide RAS for a crime.
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Cite? There is ample precedent that lawful behavior cannot provide RAS for a crime.

I'm not saying they had a right to search.
That is what they told him.
Because he had a green card that gave them cause to search the vehicle since pot is still illegal under federal statutes and he was carrying a gun.
Because of the 2oz. of pot they charged him with a felony charge of distribution and sales.
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Did they know he was carrying a gun?

Are Michigan law enforcement officers permitted to enforce Federal laws?

CPL holders are required to disclose that they are carrying when detained by any officer.
As far as enforcing federal laws by state/local agencies, I don't know but they hit him with two felony charges.
I wasn't told what the plea deal was so I don't know what his record reflects other than a felony conviction.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
CPL holders are required to disclose that they are carrying when detained by any officer.
As far as enforcing federal laws by state/local agencies, I don't know but they hit him with two felony charges.
I wasn't told what the plea deal was so I don't know what his record reflects other than a felony conviction.

As I seem to recall (I moved a couple years ago), in California, for instance, police can't make arrests for violations of Federal law. To accomplish that, they'd have to basically call the relevant Federal LEOs. And then, as I seem to recall, precisely because of the conflict between that practice and the state's mandate to allow medical marijuana, the police were told by the state courts that they would no longer be permitted to call in Federal LEOs over acts legal under State law. (I'm not going to cite this now, but this is all correct if my memory serves me.)

Of course, with the duty to notify, that may be irrelevant if Michigan state law still prohibits simultaneous possession of medical marijuana and a firearm.

However, there are certainly other states where medical marijuana patients can buy and possess firearms and medical marijuana (or even non-medical, now) and local law enforcement basically can't do a thing about it, even though Federal law still prohibits doing so.
 

Rick H

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
323
Location
Hoover, Alabama
Did they know he was carrying a gun?

Are Michigan law enforcement officers permitted to enforce Federal laws?

My nephew made a wide right turn from a gas station then was pulled over, at this point the cop said he that's when the search started . Cop was then notified of med card. Search would have been illegal in my opinion at that point because the cop was notified of the card and legal possession.
The supreme court just held that driving under the influence was legal because there is no way to prove the level of the substance. So to that point card legal, possession legal,search not legal.plus he was not under the influence at the time, only in possession of 2 grams. Oh the firearm was under seat locked in a box but loaded..
PEOPLE v KOON was the case that was similar and the high court threw it out .
 
Last edited:

22Luke36

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Above and Beyond.
Search was illegal, so was the seizure, independent of the search. Two laws apply in this case. MCL 333.26424, which states clearly that no person can be denied any right or privileged or any licensing authority based on the possession of the card or the product, and secondly MCL 333.26426, which states that possession of the card does NOT constitute probable cause.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2z....aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-333-26426

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gr...me=mcl-333-26424&query=on&highlight=marihuana

It's a sates rights issue, the BATFE memo (opinion) is irrelevant. Constitutionally, the feds have their hands tied.
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
My nephew made a wide right turn from a gas station then was pulled over, at this point the cop said he that's when the search started . Cop was then notified of med card. Search would have been illegal in my opinion at that point because the cop was notified of the card and legal possession.
The supreme court just held that driving under the influence was legal because there is no way to prove the level of the substance. So to that point card legal, possession legal,search not legal.plus he was not under the influence at the time, only in possession of 2 grams. Oh the firearm was under seat locked in a box but loaded..
PEOPLE v KOON was the case that was similar and the high court threw it out .

His lawyer should be able to understand the new rulings and cases and laws regarding the case.

Is he represented by an attorney? If so, have you told your nephew you have posted this thread?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Search was illegal, so was the seizure, independent of the search. Two laws apply in this case. MCL 333.26424, which states clearly that no person can be denied any right or privileged or any licensing authority based on the possession of the card or the product, and secondly MCL 333.26426, which states that possession of the card does NOT constitute probable cause.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2z....aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-333-26426

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gr...me=mcl-333-26424&query=on&highlight=marihuana

It's a sates rights issue, the BATFE memo (opinion) is irrelevant. Constitutionally, the feds have their hands tied.

This is my thinking on the matter, and practice has (surprisingly, perhaps) largely backed it up.

Thanks for the Michigan law cites, too. I thought that might be the case. Looks like my suspicion that the search was illegal was correct.

A similar thing happened to a passenger of mine, and we were both illegally searched. I still have a recording of the whole incident, somewhere. However, as they didn't arrest us nor even detain us very long, and as the search was fruitless (duh), there was no standing to sue. :p

The dumbest thing this guy did was let the prosecution railroad him into a plea bargain over charges they could probably not even take to trial.
 
Last edited:

Golden Eagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
253
Location
SW Michigan
You are required to disclose possession of a firearm due to the CPL requirements.
The cop after seeing his green card asked if he had any pot in the car and he told them yes, it was in the trunk.
Now the cop had RAS/PC to search the car and then this guys problems began.
He had the misguided opinion that he was legal under state law and therefore SAFE from federal prosecution

This got me thinking maybe this could be the case that will make 'shall immediately disclose' unconstitutional and get his charges dropped.
Since it requires us to give up our 5TH amendment rights(Self-Incrimination Clause).
 
Last edited:

Rick H

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
323
Location
Hoover, Alabama
What is/are the specific MCL#'s that your nephew was charged with?

At the this time they have only charged yum with OUI. But they confiscated his firearm and green card. His court date for his arraignment was set for the 28th but was cancelled do to test was not back from lab.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I'm surprised he hasn't had his CPL suspended or revoked for having the pot. Apparently gun boards have been deny people with medical marijuana cards.
 
Top