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Thread: Filming/Recording OC Encounters

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Filming/Recording OC Encounters

    So the concept of OC is fairly new to me. In California OC is basically impossible (yes there are exceptions, but Los Angeles for the most part is a no no). Since coming up here I have become more and more interested in the subject. I was on Youtube last night and thought it would be great to check out some OC rallies or events. I did find one or two neat videos but the majority of what I saw was people filming or recording their OC encounters with LE.

    I watched a few of these and it actually angered me. The people on the vids weren't just open carrying because they felt it was their right, they were actually looking for LE. When they were approached they were rude and disrespectful. Cops aren't stupid and it probably irritates them when they see the guy has a video recorder and an M&P 10 on his back. They obviously have to respond to the call and they would probably prefer to be elsewhere anyway. I just think that the people who do this are giving the whole community a bad name. Do any of you do this? You you agree with what these people are doing? Why or why not?
    Last edited by bebop4one; 09-05-2013 at 06:16 PM.

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    We have only the rights that we defend. Cops are public servants and need to learn servility to their citizen masters.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The cops are not "required" to respond.

    If a woman dresses provocatively was she just asking to get raped?

    The victim is never at fault for the actions of the aggressor.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    The OP posted a thread that is nothing but opinion. And not in "Social Lounge".
    Opinion others may find objectionable and maddening. I just think that the people who do this are giving the whole community a bad name.

    Therefore the OP should surrender his 1st Amendment Right and turn in his keyboard to the nearest Para-military Police compound or elected official. STAT.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-05-2013 at 05:06 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    . When they were approached they were rude and disrespectful.
    Rude and disrespectful ???...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N4vhRiJwFg

    Sucks to be them I guess...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-05-2013 at 05:46 PM.

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The cops are not "required" to respond.

    If a woman dresses provocatively was she just asking to get raped?

    The victim is never at fault for the actions of the aggressor.
    If an officer is told to respond to a MWG call by dispatch, they have the choice just to not show up?? Can you prove this?

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    The OP posted a thread that is nothing but opinion. And not in "Social Lounge".
    Opinion others may find objectionable and maddening. I just think that the people who do this are giving the whole community a bad name.

    Therefore the OP should surrender his 1st Amendment Right and turn in his keyboard to the nearest Para-military Police compound or elected official. STAT.
    A bit extreme...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    So the concept of OC is fairly new to me. In California OC is basically impossible (yes there are exceptions, but Los Angeles for the most part is a no no). Since coming up here I have become more and more interested in the subject. I was on Youtube last night and thought it would be great to check out some OC rallies or events. I did find one or two neat videos but the majority of what I saw was people filming or recording their OC encounters with LE.

    I watched a few of these and it actually angered me. The people on the vids weren't just open carrying because they felt it was their right, they were actually looking for LE. When they were approached they were rude and disrespectful. Cops aren't stupid and it probably irritates them when they see the guy has a video recorder and an M&P 10 on his back. They obviously have to respond to the call and they would probably be elsewhere anyway. I just think that the people who do this are giving the whole community a bad name. Do any of you do this? You you agree with what these people are doing? Why or why not?
    I tend to get rude and disrespectful when I am harassed for lawful behavior.

    Cops bait people all the time why is is unacceptable to you to when someone baits a Cop?
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    I tend to get rude and disrespectful when I am harassed for lawful behavior.

    Cops bait people all the time why is is unacceptable to you to when someone baits a Cop?
    I think neither is called for. So because some cops bait civilians, some civilians should bait cops to get even? Also, what is your definition of harassed? Being approached? Being told that they got a call? I feel like the smoother the encounter goes for the officer, the more likely it is that he/she will be cool with the next OC'er.

    I'm not saying that people don't have the right to do it. I'm not even suggesting that they stop. I merely noticed that these people have an agenda. I didn't realize that there had to be an agenda to OC other than to protect yourself.
    Last edited by bebop4one; 09-05-2013 at 06:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    If an officer is told to respond to a MWG call by dispatch, they have the choice just to not show up?? Can you prove this?
    Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) is an case that held police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals, even if a dispatcher promises help to be on the way, except when police develop a special duty to particular individuals.

    Some other reading:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts

    https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/p.../28scotus.html

    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/suprem...eneral-public/
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    I'm not saying that people don't have the right to do it. I'm not even suggesting that they stop. I merely noticed that these people have an agenda. I didn't realize that there had to be an agenda to OC other than to protect yourself.

    but we all have an agenda... you carry for protection. He carries to make a public statement. She carries for another reason.

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    I don't think people get irritated by police response, which can be expected in some instances. They get angry when police arrive and demand ID, and expect citizens to bow before them and prove their innocence by coughing up ID, when the officer has no reason (legally) to ask. You should not be pestered to prove you are not a felon for engaging in legal activities. The United States' fore-fathers certainly thought this was important enough of a freedom and right that they wrote it into the bill of rights, the fourth amendment.

    So yes, a clear violation of my fourth amendment rights, backed by many many case rulings, would certainly irritate the f##k out of me.



    bebop, read the warren vs district of columbia, it was an eye opener for me...
    Last edited by MattinWA; 09-05-2013 at 06:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    I don't think people get irritated by police response, which can be expected in some instances. They get angry when police arrive and demand ID, and expect citizens to bow before them and prove their innocence by coughing up ID, when the officer has no reason (legally) to ask. You should not be pestered to prove you are not a felon for engaging in legal activities. The United States' fore-fathers certainly thought this was important enough of a freedom and right that they wrote it into the bill of rights, the fourth amendment.

    So yes, a clear violation of my fourth amendment rights, backed by many many case rulings, would certainly irritate the f##k out of me.



    bebop, read the warren vs district of columbia, it was an eye opener for me...
    I'm on it Matt!

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    There's always a lot more too it that people baiting police or being jackholes to them.
    For one, operators are supposed to be trained in how to talk to people that report MWAGs. "How is he carrying it?" etc. There's a lot of calls generated based solely on the fact that a guy had a holstered sidearm. If the caller is some whackjob that freaks out at the idea of citizens with guns and makes it sound like some guy is running around with a gun in his hand, I would expect police to respond. If they get there and you're coming home from the store with your groceries with your weapon holstered, they could choose to contact you, but you don't have to submit to a detention.
    However a lot of the 911 or police operators are not properly trained. A lot of the cases around this have resulted in training on how to handle MWAG calls.
    Many cops are rather polite about it; in all my experience of being "caught" with guns I've never had a single cop ask me "why do you carry a gun" or any stupid question like that. Some aren't polite though, and I don't have much sympathy for them if the citizen is rude to them when the officer doesn't respect the 4th Amendment.
    As for long guns, I would generally expect at least a response if they get a call about someone wearing an AR-15 around; that doesn't mean a detention, that doesn't mean guns drawn, but that's something I would at least expect them to check out.
    I personally don't OC long guns, though I've been considering doing it with a Mosin Nagant for a while now, with the bayonet and all. I don't like to seek out confrontation (contrary to what some may believe) but we should be prepared to stand up when confrontation presents itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    So yes, a clear violation of my fourth amendment rights, backed by many many case rulings, would certainly irritate the f##k out of me.

    That being said, the only negative experience I have had was being asked to leave the olive garden, which is their right, and it is my right to no longer spend money there.

    admittedly I am rather new to the idea of open carry in urban environments, being a recent convert from the CCer's. But now I carry everywhere
    Last edited by MattinWA; 09-05-2013 at 08:09 PM.

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    That being said, the only negative experience I have had was being asked to leave the olive garden, which is their right, and it is my right to no longer spend money there.

    admittedly I am rather new to the idea of open carry in urban environments, being a recent convert from the CCer's. But now I carry everywhere
    Out of curiosity, did they ask you to leave before they seated you?? Or were you in the middle of eating?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    A bit extreme...
    That's funny coming from you. No really. Right from the horses mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    I just think that the people who do this are giving the whole community a bad name.

    hy·poc·ri·sy
    hiˈpäkrisē/
    noun
    noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies

    1.
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
    synonyms: dissimulation, false virtue, cant, posturing, affectation, speciousness, empty talk, insincerity, falseness, deceit, dishonesty, mendacity, pretense, duplicity;
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    Out of curiosity, did they ask you to leave before they seated you?? Or were you in the middle of eating?
    After seated, after ordered drinks, before ordering food. Was approached by two "managers?" Who said firearms were not permitted and stated that the washington state no firearms sign at the bar was their proper signage... ignorance at its finest.
    I was with my girlfriend and 10 year old child as well. Thankfully, being downtown spokane there was another place to eat a short walk down the street.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    I think neither is called for. So because some cops bait civilians, some civilians should bait cops to get even? Also, what is your definition of harassed? Being approached? Being told that they got a call? I feel like the smoother the encounter goes for the officer, the more likely it is that he/she will be cool with the next OC'er.
    Me thinks thar be trolls.

    Funny. You have no idea who you are yacking on about. Don't know why these guys forced to video record do what they do. What events lead up to them having to carry a recording device on their person in the first place. Newsflash. If there was NO CHANCE of these guys being illegally detained, multiple times, there would be no videos in the first place. If the cops followed the law there wouldn't be tons of threads on this very forum discussing what recording device to carry every time we leave the house. For our own protection. You say bait the cops. Explain to the class how lawfully going about your day is baiting anyone.

    Go ahead new guy. Enlighten us. With your opinion.

    (or better yet start digging in and doing your research here)
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-05-2013 at 09:36 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Me thinks thar be trolls.

    Funny. You have no idea who you are yacking on about. Don't know why these guys forced to video record do what they do. What events lead up to them having to carry a recording device on their person in the first place. Newsflash. If there was NO CHANCE of these guys being illegally detained, multiple times, there would be no videos in the first place. If the cops followed the law there wouldn't be tons of threads on this very forum discussing what recording device to carry every time we leave the house. For our own protection. You say bait the cops. Explain to the class how lawfully going about your day is baiting anyone.

    Go ahead new guy. Enlighten us. With your opinion.
    These guys were looking for officers. How is that not baiting? So you want to look for officers and test how knowledgeable they are? I'm sorry pal but that is baiting to me. Also, why don't you go ahead and explain to the class how to bait someone. You seem to be doing a pretty good job baiting someone who just wanted to discuss something that is new to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    That being said, the only negative experience I have had was being asked to leave the olive garden, which is their right, and it is my right to no longer spend money there.

    admittedly I am rather new to the idea of open carry in urban environments, being a recent convert from the CCer's. But now I carry everywhere
    Olive Garden changed their policy to allow lawful carry. When was your issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    I think neither is called for. So because some cops bait civilians, some civilians should bait cops to get even? Also, what is your definition of harassed? Being approached? Being told that they got a call? I feel like the smoother the encounter goes for the officer, the more likely it is that he/she will be cool with the next OC'er.

    I'm not saying that people don't have the right to do it. I'm not even suggesting that they stop. I merely noticed that these people have an agenda. I didn't realize that there had to be an agenda to OC other than to protect yourself.
    So what would you call the officers behavior that is stopping you for doing nothing unlawful.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebop4one View Post
    These guys were looking for officers. How is that not baiting? So you want to look for officers and test how knowledgeable they are? I'm sorry pal but that is baiting to me. Also, why don't you go ahead and explain to the class how to bait someone. You seem to be doing a pretty good job baiting someone who just wanted to discuss something that is new to him.
    So the troll has no answers.

    How does lawfully going about one's day constitute baiting anyone.

    Answer the question.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-05-2013 at 10:03 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    Olive Garden changed their policy to allow lawful carry. When was your issue?
    Few weeks ago... may not have been a corporate policy shift so much as a few ignorant, self important managers, either way I will not be returning.

  25. #25
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    So the troll has no answers.

    How does lawfully going about one's day constitute baiting anyone.

    Answer the question.
    Meh I don't like you so I'm going to ignore you from now on.

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