Clearly an unlawful order ... feel free to ignore the "request"
Two men enter City Hall to pick up a records request. Immediatley upon entering, a female clerk tells one of them men that he isn't allowed to film in the building and isn't allowed to film her. The man explains that he just wants to walk down the hall to the records officer. The man wasn't even filming at that time. The female clerk told the man he wasn't allowed to go to the clerks officer if he was filming. As a result of her order, he takes out his video camera and starts recording.
The female clerk then calls the police and reports that the man is "causing a disturbance and is refusing to leave".
These clerks have called the police on this man twice now for filming......even though there is NO law against filming in the PUBLIC building and filming PUBLIC government officials.
Police show up and tell the two men they have to wait for 30 minutes before they are allowed back in the building and they must have a police escort and get police permission before they enter the building.
The police officer said "the staff here has a RIGHT to have a police officer present".
Hmmm, I didn't know that was a right that all Americans had. I don't remember seeing that in the Bill of Rights.
There is addition video from this incident but it is being withheld due to upcoming lawsuit.
Clearly an unlawful order ... feel free to ignore the "request"
Feel free to ignore legal advice from folks who fancy themselves legal experts in all 50 States.
The order may well be unlawful, and you may well be able to ignore it without committing a crime. I just wouldn't trust advice from this troll without verifying it from a reliable source.
See how it works folks - LAC is given a "lesson" by a minion of power. Do as I say law be damned. What is their "need" for a police response? You are causing a "disruption". LIE! They caused a scene not you. Dirty trick playbook 101 at work here people. Just more BS from civil servants who believe the citizens are there to serve them & not the other way around.
I am in no way advocating for violence - but should the SHTF, these tiny tryants should expect no favors from the citizens.
Last edited by FreeInAZ; 09-06-2013 at 05:30 AM.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi
“Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi
The problem is that this guy needs to argue over the law all the time. He makes a total ass of himself, and, despite his protestations, he IS being argumentative. The officials in the video, despite being wrong on the law, are remaining calm and firm. Bozo videoing needs to learn this from them.
He should just shut up and follow the law. When she tells him that no one is there, he should leave and come back when they are there. If it is lawful (I don't know CA law, so I won't comment on who is right or who is wrong), he should video away, despite orders to the contrary. If they react unlawfully, he'd have the video record, which would then have (as this one does not) evidence of his reasonability and calmness in the face of their unlawfulness.
Stop arguing. Just follow the law. Let them argue. (It seems that they are already wisely following the don't argue advice, making the videographer look like a troublemaking jerk.)
Generally speaking, there is no prohibition against filming public officials in the act of performing their public official duties.
When the clerk calls the cops and claims the filmer is causing a disturbance the dynamic changes - regardless of the fact that it appears the clerk is responsible for causing the disturbance. The filmer remaining there would be contributing to the disturbance.
The cops offered a somewhat acceptable alternative to the filmer standing there and providing sufficient cause to be arrested even though they did not start the disturbance. I was especially impressed with the offer of a police escort to document who starts any disturbance on the return of the former. The BS about needing police permission to return is BS, but I think we all saw that right away.
I'm not sure that the clerk has "a right" to have a police officer present, given the numerous SCOTUS rulings that the police have no obligation to protect a specific individual. But they certainly may request the presence of a police officer to control a situation they believe may escalate into some sort of disturbance, if not exactly the crime of disturbing the peace. Just as the filmer may do so.
The rigid, concrete stance of the OP bothers me. Is it really that hard to see the possibilities of turning the position taken by the clerk and the police against them?
Heck, yes! Escort me - be right there and witness the clerk start a disturbance and also witness her blatant refusal to perform her public official duties. What better witnesses could you want? And if the cops have their own video recorders, you can subpeona them. (First thing I would do is start a paper trail informing the police that the video is evidence of an allerged crime and must be protected as such.)
But I guess the OP has a problem getting outside that box labled "the cops are bad guys and all they do is violate rights".
"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man
Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.
"No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
But one thing I do agree with eye95 about (As I can glean from the comments)....
Why do people record themselves SCREAMING AND YELLING HYSTERICALLY ABOUT BEING SLIGHTED BY THE LAW!!!!.....
...while the supposed "evil beurocrats" remain calm and collected?
They could have sold your kids into slavery, but the fact they appear reasonable, and the person recording rants and raves makes anyone viewing it begin to contemplate the merits of slavery.
People: When you record something, it's the ENTIRE PRESENTATION that affects perception and how public opinion is formed. This is why Hollywood often uses beautiful women for their protagonists, and shrivelled up old men for their villains: APPEARANCE forms a stronger initial opinion than INFORMATION.
Yes. You might be completely in the right. The authorities might be completely screwing you, and you could be entirely justified.
But, since APPEARANCE forms stronger opinions than INFORMATION, recording your vehement objections, rants, raves, and obstinancy while the evil beurocrats remain calmly ambivolent simply serves to ALTER the proper reaction of viewers into one favoring THE WRONG SIDE.
The sooner OC'ers realize this FACT, the sooner we can stop making recordings that harm our cause and begin recording incidents that help it.
I would simply point out that the videographer was not yelling nor screaming. He was just arguing while the petty functionaries were remaining firm and calm.
But your point that these videos are hurting the cause is correct. We should be the ones being firm, calm, and NOT argumentative.
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When two individuals, one in the right, and one in the wrong, are both shown to be calm and firm in a video, all the viewer is left with is information. Not much more exciting that a C-SPAN call in show. I am of the opinion that the casual viewer, the uninformed viewer, will not be interested in mere information and thus that viewer will be moving onto more riveting footage. The cause is not always served well by information presented in a calm and firm manner. Emotion does have a place in the cause as long as it is shown in a positive light.
Anyway, the bureaucrat presented itself as the unthinking drone that they are perceived to be, and the videographer is presenting himself as the surf attempting to "fight city hall."
No screaming, no yelling. No filming till AFTER the citizen was stopped and reprimanded by his public employee. For recording when he wasn't.
All your words... mean absolutely nothing.
The sooner our employees honor their oaths the sooner we can start posting all positive encounters and get on with our lives.The sooner OC'ers realize this FACT, the sooner we can stop making recordings that harm our cause and begin recording incidents that help it.
"Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
"Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."