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Thread: Stop resisting - another isolated incident -- you know the drill

  1. #1
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    Stop resisting - another isolated incident -- you know the drill

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ns-tasing-him/

    The nearly five-minute cellphone video shows police in the Los Angeles suburb hitting Porfirio Santos-Lopez in the legs six times. He kicks back several times. He also is shown being jolted with a stun gun.

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    If this is the treatment of a citizen when the camera is rolling then we can only suspect what occurs off camera.

    Where are the so called "good cops" while all this unnecessary abuse is happening?

    The criminals on scene should be fired and jailed, and the entire police department should be serviced with a civil complaint in Federal Court.

    USC 42 section 1983 should fit the bill for proper redress.

    Another sad day for LEA.. The thin blue "Criminal" line must be removed.

    My .02

    CCJ

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    I am going to coin a new acronym because I am getting tired of typing that there is not enough information to pass judgment.

    NEI.

    We do not see what led up to this point. The article does mention that while the man was still standing, he was punching at the officers. On the video, we can see several times the man kicking at officers who are approaching him (probably to turn him over and cuff him, but not, at that moment striking him nor making a move to do so). The man WAS resisting. I am sure the officers, in their horribly violent and stupid way, were trying to get the man to roll over so that they could cuff him. He is somewhat more dangerous to the officers while lying on his back than on his belly.

    I am not justifying the officers' actions. At the very least, they need to learn how to handle a citizen who is resisting, but is clearly no real threat to their "safety." However, without seeing the whole video, including the surveillance camera, showing how we arrived at this point, it is impossible to say whether the man's rights were violated or what crimes (if any) the police committed.

    BTW, the article says that the cellphone video is 5 minutes long and implies that they posted the whole thing. They didn't.

    If folks want to make the case that these officers committed crimes and/or violated this man's rights, they should defend their position by finding and posting both videos in their entireties.

    Until they do that, NEI.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    What the officers lacked primarily was patience. They had 'other things to do' and decided that pain compliance and threats were the best way to get a combative but -unarmed- client to submit to being handcuffed.

    Why not handcuff him in the front and also cuff his legs? After that roll him over and reapply the cuffs from the rear or use a belt?

    Any time you physically strike a relatively helpless client you are violating his rights. The cops justify it because the client is being 'disrespectful' an attitude that -they- need to lose. The only cops that have 'respect mah authority' issues are cowards and overly entitled jerks with anger management issues. You get your respect from your good deeds and your restraint and patience. Because the 'took a swing' at them it raised their ire and they think it's ok and professional to 'get revenge'. Wrong!

    Does it really matter if the guy was 'fighting them'? He's unarmed and thus only a minimal danger to four cops in an open space. They need to develop an alternate means such as a tactical netting procedure for these 'all too common' resisting situations where the client doesn't want to be detained and the cops feel he should be so as not to endanger either the officer or the client.

    IMO.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-06-2013 at 07:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    ...They need to develop an alternate means such as a tactical netting procedure for these 'all too common' resisting situations where the client doesn't want to be detained and the cops feel he should be so as not to endanger either the officer or the client.
    The Roman's knew the value of the Retirarius too. Rather than his tridens, a post-modern para-gladiatores could use a TASER (Thomas A. Swift Electric Rifle), thus closing the loop on history.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Stop resisting - another isolated incident -- you know the drill

    Maverick is correct that the officers lacked patience.

    However, I would not characterize the man as "relatively helpless." He was kicking at the officers, which is precisely why they want him on his belly to cuff him. However, I am sure that the officers can be trained in a better way to have five of them take control of a flailing man, forcibly roll him over, and cuff him, without having to resort to hit, demand, hit, demand, rinse, repeat.

    Off the top of my head, assign each officer a limb to control, and one to cuff. I am sure that they can practice a move of rolling the man over while controlling his limbs.

    Again, though, the man was resisting. The police need to learn a better reaction to such lame resistance.


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    Assessing mental illness involvement

    In Long Beach, California, the mental evaluation team (MET) pairs a uniformed patrol officer with a mental health professional from the county to co-respond to calls, either when requested to do so by the responding officer or when a call is overheard on the radio. This team only responds to calls involving a mental health crisis. The team focuses on being nonthreatening by riding in an unmarked car and using an approach that is conversational and calm. In the teamís experience, the person in crisis will often respond favorably to at least one person on the team, who will then take the lead.
    http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=65061

    Mental Evaluation Team (MET)
    MET consists of 4 sworn officers who are partnered with clinicians from the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health (DMH). MET provides additional resources to patrol by responding to and handling calls involving the mentally ill and homeless. They also provide intelligence during SWAT responses and are trained negotiators. The partnership with DMH allows them access to resources not otherwise available to police officers. MET has the means to connect individuals with the proper resources they require.
    http://www.longbeach.gov/police/abou...t_division.asp

    This appeared to be a mental illness issue.

    Where were they?

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    I am of the opinion that the subject was not kicking at the officers except to avoid/deflect the strikes of the baton. He is not shown attempting to kick at the officers when he was not being struck with the baton.

    Cops used unjustifiable and excessive force in my view.

    UMMV

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post

    However, I would not characterize the man as "relatively helpless." He was kicking at the officers, which is precisely why they want him on his belly to cuff him.

    <o>
    The guy being tased, stunned, hit with batons ... did you see those kicks? Hardly Bruce Lee, more like a baby's.

    So if eye is on the jury, its a not guilty verdict in favor of the cops. Because the guy displayed baby-like kicks...

    Well see I guess if this analysis is agreeable to 12 jurors.

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    The video posted is only a fraction of the event. The article provides more (but not all) info; the suspect was drunk and high on meth. Sometimes these idiots are like fish- you gotta tire them out.

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    Broken bones, two in the elbow and a partially collapsed lung is reported by the family. The elbow is fair game. The partially collapsed lung (if true) indicates to me that a potentially lethal blow was applied, possibly more than once. It is this injury that elevates those baton strikes to unjustified and excessive, in my view. Military baton training clearly prohibited certain areas of the human body as appropriate targets for a baton strike due to the possibility of a lethal blow. A baton must be employed to subdue, not to kill. Is a partially collapsed lung a lethal injury? Given today's medical care likely not but this does not obviate the possibility that it could cause death.

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    Stop resisting - another isolated incident -- you know the drill

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    The video posted is only a fraction of the event. The article provides more (but not all) info; the suspect was drunk and high on meth. Sometimes these idiots are like fish- you gotta tire them out.
    True. But the officers need better techniques for tiring him out!

    BTW, the man was kicking at officers when they approached with batons down. We also did not see the likely resistance prior to the start of the cell phone recording. There is a longer video from a surveillance camera. Where is it?


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    Needed to shoot him with Atavan or Haldol instead of a taser and beating.

    If it is a mental heath issue. Verbal judo (talking) and patients is the best way to deal with the situation if there is not threat to life. I wonder what the cops lacked the verbal skills or the patinets......maybe both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    True. But the officers need better techniques for tiring him out!

    BTW, the man was kicking at officers when they approached with batons down. We also did not see the likely resistance prior to the start of the cell phone recording. There is a longer video from a surveillance camera. Where is it?


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    Clearly some of this beat down is excessive...I would like to see the other vid too ... beats me where it is; maybe someone will post

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Clearly some of this beat down is excessive...I would like to see the other vid too ... beats me where it is; maybe someone will post
    Mybe it was accidently destroyed while the cops had custody of it.....strange how that works.

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