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Thread: Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

    http://www.thefair.com/about-us/core-values/
    Family
    We want everyone who has and will come through our gates to feel welcome. We honor our Fair founders by encouraging people of all ages and backgrounds to come together to celebrate and make wonderful memories at a good value in a safe environment. We value all guests and Fair family, treating them with respect.


    Has there been a change or is it still an anti-rights (gun) fair?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Found it

    These items may not be brought into the facility:

    Open containers
    Alcoholic beverages
    Controlled substances
    Weapons
    Bicycles
    Animals (except aid or show animals)
    Skates, roller blades, skateboards
    Unauthorized vehicles

    I did not find that very easily.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

    I am not as up to date on RCS as I should be, and thereby sumbit this question:

    Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?

    Not trying to start anything, just making sure I have it right.

    Thank you.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    I am not as up to date on RCS as I should be, and thereby sumbit this question:

    Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?

    Not trying to start anything, just making sure I have it right.

    Thank you.
    If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

    However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 09-06-2013 at 10:37 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

    However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.
    Interesting point.

    I thought of the question after reading the "Board and Management" section in the provided link, and saw no mention of state sponsorship, hence my query.

    Your post does make me think the rules are flexible. Maybe it depends on who is leasing the property at any point in time, and rules are changed for each function?

    Example: What would happen if they had a Fast Draw competition,or a Cowboy Shooting exposition during the fair?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    Interesting point.

    I thought of the question after reading the "Board and Management" section in the provided link, and saw no mention of state sponsorship, hence my query.

    Your post does make me think the rules are flexible. Maybe it depends on who is leasing the property at any point in time, and rules are changed for each function?

    Example: What would happen if they had a Fast Draw competition,or a Cowboy Shooting exposition during the fair?
    That is why I prefer to avoid that fair in the past as the Puyallup fair or only CC there.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    That is why I prefer to avoid that fair in the past as the Puyallup fair or only CC there.
    Good idea.

    I've a good friend who lives very close to the fairgrounds, and is attending this evening.

    He's supposed to tell me how it went tomorrow.

  8. #8
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I have been trying to dig up info as well. Since the name change I wonder if they are taking in public funds. If so, then some changes in the rules will need to be done.

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    Fair's private - they just changed the name of the event.

    No gun rights on private property - just a license to be on someone else's property with a gun, if they choose to grant said license. In The Fair's case they haven't.

    Don't over analyze.

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    If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.


    Wait - if it was still The Puyallup Fair, wouldn't that imply to someone with a penchant for over analysis that the event is sponsored by the City of Puyallup, thus making it public?

    You can't have your over analyzed argument both ways.

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    Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?


    Correct. They are not a city, town, county, or other municipality as mentioned in the RCW.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Have they trademarked the name "The Washington State Fair"? Is the name even trademarkable, given it claims to be affiliated with a state? If not, and they're not officially sponsored to be our official state fair, what prevents someone from holding their own fair using the same name?
    Last edited by Difdi; 09-07-2013 at 06:07 AM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

    However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.
    This Forum Page is the "Washington State" page. Does that make it a state government sponsored page? Methinks not.

    Go look in the phone book at all the businesses that use "Washington State" in their names and are all private businesses.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    This Forum Page is the "Washington State" page. Does that make it a state government sponsored page? Methinks not.

    Go look in the phone book at all the businesses that use "Washington State" in their names and are all private businesses.
    So the site owner(s) have a trademark on "Washington State Forum"? Read and understand what I wrote before attempting to 'rebut' it please.

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    A lot would depend on how the land a buildings are in the possession of the private company that is putting on the fair and if they have property rights to the property. For example if it is a license to use the facility, the most common in Washington, they have no property rights and can not say no firearms. If it is a lease or rented they may or may not be able to restrict firearms depending on how the lease is written. Often when a building is leased from the government the lease contains the words "lessee must follow all state laws" or similar wording because the Municipality can not allow the rent of the building for unlawful purposes. Last thing per Sequim v PNSPA the municipality can not make rules about firearms that effect the general public. So without knowing all that you are all just guessing.

    Do a public information request for the lease, license to use etc and see just what it says and if that matches up to state law.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 09-07-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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    Or it could be as simple as going to the Pierce County GIS web page and seeing who owns the land. It's private. That about settles it.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Take it for what it is worth.
    Many Fairgrounds are actually owned by the County and ran by a Foundation that was created to run the Fair Grounds on the behalf of the County.
    When I first moved back to Yakima there were similar issues until I addressed the County Commissioners and all firearms restrictions outside what the Legislature provided for were removed.

    Here is what Pierce County GIS has;
    http://matterhorn3.co.pierce.wa.us/publicgis/

    Search Business Licenses
    License Information:
    Entity Name: WESTERN WASHINGTON FAIR ASSOCIATION
    Business Name: THE PUYALLUP FAIR
    License Type: Washington State Business
    Entity Type: Profit Corporation
    UBI: 275000273 Business ID:001 Location ID:0003
    Status: To check the status of this company, go to Secretary of State and Department of Revenue.


    Location Address:
    110 9TH AVE SW
    PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811

    Mailing Address:
    110 9TH AVE SW
    PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811
    View Additional Locations
    Status Expires First Issued
    Registered Trade Names:
    THE PUYALLUP FAIR Active N/A 02/03/1987
    THE STATE FAIR OF WASHINGTON Active N/A 01/02/2008
    THE WASHINGTON STATE FAIR Active N/A 01/02/2008
    Governing People:
    CARL HOGAN
    DAVID CAMPBELL
    GARY GONTER
    MICHAEL NELSON

    Information Current as of 09/06/2013 5:41AM Pacific Time
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    These items may not be brought into the facility:

    Open containers
    Alcoholic beverages
    Controlled substances
    Weapons
    Bicycles
    Animals (except aid or show animals)
    Skates, roller blades, skateboards
    Unauthorized vehicles

    I did not find that very easily.
    It seems to me they would want to ban Uncontrolled substances before controlled substances or both at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Correct. They are not a city, town, county, or other municipality as mentioned in the RCW.[/COLOR]
    YOU are way to willing to bow down and let those that would stick it to you, eh? If it is open to the public, and on publicly owned ground, RCW 9.41.300 still applies. You have to get the "Private property rights" stuff where it belongs...at home...

    Property, privately or publicly owned, that is open to the general public, has a different set of property rights that you have in your abode. "you" voluntarily give up a lot of your "private property rights" when you open your doors to teh general public.

    If you don't think so, when did the state building code mandate you install handicapped accessible doors and ramps on you home?

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    If you don't think so, when did the state building code mandate you install handicapped accessible doors and ramps on you home?


    As I recently asked in another thread, what's that got to do with the price of tea in Red China?

    Are you trying to make the argument that private businesses that are open to the general public cannot prohibit guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Take it for what it is worth.
    Many Fairgrounds are actually owned by the County and ran by a Foundation that was created to run the Fair Grounds on the behalf of the County.
    When I first moved back to Yakima there were similar issues until I addressed the County Commissioners and all firearms restrictions outside what the Legislature provided for were removed.

    Here is what Pierce County GIS has;
    http://matterhorn3.co.pierce.wa.us/publicgis/



    Information Current as of 09/06/2013 5:41AM Pacific Time
    Thanks Dave that is exactly what I was thinking.
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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    I looked into this a couple years back. The fair GROUNDS are privately owned not owned by a government. The fair is ran by a private entity.

    Since everything is private, preemption does not apply. I concealed without any issues. No bag searches or patdowns when I went.
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    Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Take it for what it is worth.
    Many Fairgrounds are actually owned by the County and ran by a Foundation that was created to run the Fair Grounds on the behalf of the County.
    When I first moved back to Yakima there were similar issues until I addressed the County Commissioners and all firearms restrictions outside what the Legislature provided for were removed.

    Here is what Pierce County GIS has;
    http://matterhorn3.co.pierce.wa.us/publicgis/

    Search Business Licenses
    License Information:
    Entity Name: WESTERN WASHINGTON FAIR ASSOCIATION
    Business Name: THE PUYALLUP FAIR
    License Type: Washington State Business
    Entity Type: Profit Corporation
    UBI: 275000273 Business ID:001 Location ID:0003
    Status: To check the status of this company, go to Secretary of State and Department of Revenue.


    Location Address:
    110 9TH AVE SW
    PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811

    Mailing Address:
    110 9TH AVE SW
    PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811
    View Additional Locations
    Status Expires First Issued
    Registered Trade Names:
    THE PUYALLUP FAIR Active N/A 02/03/1987
    THE STATE FAIR OF WASHINGTON Active N/A 01/02/2008
    THE WASHINGTON STATE FAIR Active N/A 01/02/2008
    Governing People:
    CARL HOGAN
    DAVID CAMPBELL
    GARY GONTER
    MICHAEL NELSON

    Information Current as of 09/06/2013 5:41AM Pacific Time
    Interesting that along with the name change they seem to have gone from a non-profit to a for profit business.
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  24. #24
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Also I know you previously looked into this but to what extent I don't know but a more in-depth look into the relationship of the county and the commission concerning the true ownership of the fair grounds and actual control of the property.
    Does the fair association have the ability to sell the property or a portion of and where would the profits end up? I would think it would be in the county coffers.


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    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  25. #25
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    this is currently posted on the website


    BOARD & MANAGEMENT
    The Washington State Fair is a private, not-for-profit, 501-C3 corporation. It receives no government subsidy, and pays city and state taxes. Any proceeds are invested back into the Fair for improvements.



    BOARD OF DIRECTORS


    DIRECTORS
    Carl Hogan, President
    Gary Gonter, Vice President
    Michael Nelson, Secretary
    David Campbell, Treasurer
    Jerry Larson, Past President
    Jerome Korum
    Kenneth Scholz
    W. David Schodde, Jr.
    Roger Knutson
    Candace Blancher
    Daniel McClung
    Gary Tucci


    DIRECTORS EMERITI
    Harry Corliss
    Thomas Absher
    Paul Anderson
    Thomas Tebb
    Dennis Elvins




    MANAGEMENT TEAM
    Kent Hojem, Chief Executive Officer - kent@thefair.com
    Renee McClain, Chief Financial Officer - renee@thefair.com
    Glen Baskett, Physical Plant Manager - glen@thefair.com
    Alan Baker, Facilities Grounds Manager - alan@thefair.com
    Debbie Baker, Facility Rental / Event Services Manager - debbie@thefair.com
    Karen LaFlamme, Public Relations Counsel - karen@thefair.com
    Dan Sharp, Vendor Services Manager - dan@thefair.com
    Paula Beadle, Sponsorship Manager - paula@thefair.com
    Tracey Wittenfeld, Marketing Manager - tracey@thefair.com
    Andrea Thayer, Competitive Exhibits / Grounds Entertainment Manager - andreat@thefair.com
    Beth Brooks, Foundation Manager - beth@thefair.com
    Brenda Bakken - Executive Department Manager - brenda@thefair.com
    Bob Carlson, Manager Emeritus - bob@thefair.com




    For general questions or other information, please contact us at info@thefair.com.

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