Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

Freedom1Man · Sep 6, 2013

http://www.thefair.com/about-us/core-values/
Family
We want everyone who has and will come through our gates to feel welcome. We honor our Fair founders by encouraging people of all ages and backgrounds to come together to celebrate and make wonderful memories at a good value in a safe environment. We value all guests and Fair family, treating them with respect.

Has there been a change or is it still an anti-rights (gun) fair?

Freedom1Man · Sep 6, 2013

Found it

These items may not be brought into the facility:

Open containers
Alcoholic beverages
Controlled substances
Weapons
Bicycles
Animals (except aid or show animals)
Skates, roller blades, skateboards
Unauthorized vehicles

I did not find that very easily.

b0neZ · Sep 6, 2013

I am not as up to date on RCS as I should be, and thereby sumbit this question:

Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?

Not trying to start anything, just making sure I have it right.

Thank you.

Freedom1Man · Sep 6, 2013

b0neZ said:
I am not as up to date on RCS as I should be, and thereby sumbit this question:

Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?

Not trying to start anything, just making sure I have it right.

Thank you.

If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.

b0neZ · Sep 6, 2013

Freedom1Man said:
If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.

Interesting point.

I thought of the question after reading the "Board and Management" section in the provided link, and saw no mention of state sponsorship, hence my query.

Your post does make me think the rules are flexible. Maybe it depends on who is leasing the property at any point in time, and rules are changed for each function?

Example: What would happen if they had a Fast Draw competition,or a Cowboy Shooting exposition during the fair?

Freedom1Man · Sep 6, 2013

b0neZ said:
Interesting point.

I thought of the question after reading the "Board and Management" section in the provided link, and saw no mention of state sponsorship, hence my query.

Your post does make me think the rules are flexible. Maybe it depends on who is leasing the property at any point in time, and rules are changed for each function?

Example: What would happen if they had a Fast Draw competition,or a Cowboy Shooting exposition during the fair?

That is why I prefer to avoid that fair in the past as the Puyallup fair or only CC there.

b0neZ · Sep 6, 2013

Freedom1Man said:
That is why I prefer to avoid that fair in the past as the Puyallup fair or only CC there.

Good idea.

I've a good friend who lives very close to the fairgrounds, and is attending this evening.

He's supposed to tell me how it went tomorrow.

Bill Starks · Sep 7, 2013

I have been trying to dig up info as well. Since the name change I wonder if they are taking in public funds. If so, then some changes in the rules will need to be done.

deanf · Sep 7, 2013

Fair's private - they just changed the name of the event.

No gun rights on private property - just a license to be on someone else's property with a gun, if they choose to grant said license. In The Fair's case they haven't.

Don't over analyze.

deanf · Sep 7, 2013

If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

Wait - if it was still The Puyallup Fair, wouldn't that imply to someone with a penchant for over analysis that the event is sponsored by the City of Puyallup, thus making it public?

You can't have your over analyzed argument both ways.

deanf · Sep 7, 2013

Even though they are a fair, they are a private, not-for-profit 501(C) 3 corporation. Therefore they do not fall under preemption, correct?

Correct. They are not a city, town, county, or other municipality as mentioned in the RCW.

Difdi · Sep 7, 2013

Have they trademarked the name "The Washington State Fair"? Is the name even trademarkable, given it claims to be affiliated with a state? If not, and they're not officially sponsored to be our official state fair, what prevents someone from holding their own fair using the same name?

amlevin · Sep 7, 2013

Freedom1Man said:
If it was not THEE "Washington State Fair" and was only the (private) "Puyallup Fair," then I would agree with you.

However it would seem that it has implied state sponsorship and as such would be not be able to restrict, during the fair at least. Besides every time there is a sportsman's show or a gun show there are weapons brought in. So the rule must not be a firm one.

This Forum Page is the "Washington State" page. Does that make it a state government sponsored page? Methinks not.

Go look in the phone book at all the businesses that use "Washington State" in their names and are all private businesses.

Difdi · Sep 7, 2013

amlevin said:
This Forum Page is the "Washington State" page. Does that make it a state government sponsored page? Methinks not.

Go look in the phone book at all the businesses that use "Washington State" in their names and are all private businesses.

So the site owner(s) have a trademark on "Washington State Forum"? Read and understand what I wrote before attempting to 'rebut' it please.

Jeff Hayes · Sep 7, 2013

A lot would depend on how the land a buildings are in the possession of the private company that is putting on the fair and if they have property rights to the property. For example if it is a license to use the facility, the most common in Washington, they have no property rights and can not say no firearms. If it is a lease or rented they may or may not be able to restrict firearms depending on how the lease is written. Often when a building is leased from the government the lease contains the words "lessee must follow all state laws" or similar wording because the Municipality can not allow the rent of the building for unlawful purposes. Last thing per Sequim v PNSPA the municipality can not make rules about firearms that effect the general public. So without knowing all that you are all just guessing.

Do a public information request for the lease, license to use etc and see just what it says and if that matches up to state law.

deanf · Sep 7, 2013

Or it could be as simple as going to the Pierce County GIS web page and seeing who owns the land. It's private. That about settles it.

BigDave · Sep 7, 2013

Take it for what it is worth.
Many Fairgrounds are actually owned by the County and ran by a Foundation that was created to run the Fair Grounds on the behalf of the County.
When I first moved back to Yakima there were similar issues until I addressed the County Commissioners and all firearms restrictions outside what the Legislature provided for were removed.

Here is what Pierce County GIS has;
http://matterhorn3.co.pierce.wa.us/publicgis/

Search Business Licenses
License Information:
Entity Name: WESTERN WASHINGTON FAIR ASSOCIATION
Business Name: THE PUYALLUP FAIR
License Type: Washington State Business
Entity Type: Profit Corporation
UBI: 275000273 Business ID:001 Location ID:0003
Status: To check the status of this company, go to Secretary of State and Department of Revenue.

Location Address:
110 9TH AVE SW
PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811

Mailing Address:
110 9TH AVE SW
PUYALLUP, WA, 98371-6811
View Additional Locations
Status Expires First Issued
Registered Trade Names:
THE PUYALLUP FAIR Active N/A 02/03/1987
THE STATE FAIR OF WASHINGTON Active N/A 01/02/2008
THE WASHINGTON STATE FAIR Active N/A 01/02/2008
Governing People:
CARL HOGAN
DAVID CAMPBELL
GARY GONTER
MICHAEL NELSON

Information Current as of 09/06/2013 5:41AM Pacific Time

amzbrady · Sep 7, 2013

Freedom1Man said:
These items may not be brought into the facility:

Open containers
Alcoholic beverages
Controlled substances
Weapons
Bicycles
Animals (except aid or show animals)
Skates, roller blades, skateboards
Unauthorized vehicles

I did not find that very easily.

It seems to me they would want to ban Uncontrolled substances before controlled substances or both at once.

hermannr · Sep 7, 2013

deanf said:
Correct. They are not a city, town, county, or other municipality as mentioned in the RCW.[/COLOR]

YOU are way to willing to bow down and let those that would stick it to you, eh? If it is open to the public, and on publicly owned ground, RCW 9.41.300 still applies. You have to get the "Private property rights" stuff where it belongs...at home...

Property, privately or publicly owned, that is open to the general public, has a different set of property rights that you have in your abode. "you" voluntarily give up a lot of your "private property rights" when you open your doors to teh general public.

If you don't think so, when did the state building code mandate you install handicapped accessible doors and ramps on you home?

deanf · Sep 7, 2013

If you don't think so, when did the state building code mandate you install handicapped accessible doors and ramps on you home?

As I recently asked in another thread, what's that got to do with the price of tea in Red China?

Are you trying to make the argument that private businesses that are open to the general public cannot prohibit guns?

Change in policy at fair grounds? Puyallup

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