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Thread: Spokane: shooting legal or illegal at Antoine Peak concervation area?

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    Spokane: shooting legal or illegal at Antoine Peak concervation area?

    So I was dismayed today, my local shooting spot at kath road by newman lake has been shut down for recreational shooters by the county. I was doing a search and the Antoine Peak area, even closer to my house, is apparently not on the map of restricted shooting areas in Spokane county:

    http://www.spokanecounty.org/data/en...17July2013.pdf

    The area is public land, owned and operated by the parks dept. I understand the parks dept has a history of spreading disinformation, and according to their website, the area is off limits to shooters:


    http://www.spokanecounty.org/parks/content.aspx?c=2458

    How can I be sure this place is available to shooters, without tipping the county off to this "loophole"
    ?
    Last edited by MattinWA; 09-08-2013 at 11:10 PM.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken, they can't stop legal carrying a firearm. They can make rules concerning the discharge of firearms. A lot of places have been closed down to shooting due to careless people who trash the places. A bunch of guys on TOS did a clean up at a shooting pit in Capitol Forest. They got a big thumbs up, and some serious brownie points from DNR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, they can't stop legal carrying a firearm. They can make rules concerning the discharge of firearms. A lot of places have been closed down to shooting due to careless people who trash the places. A bunch of guys on TOS did a clean up at a shooting pit in Capitol Forest. They got a big thumbs up, and some serious brownie points from DNR.
    You say "they" can make these rules.
    Then the parks dept can restrict discharge on public lands?

    Both links provided were from Spokane county gov websites, yet show conflicting info on the same piece of land.

    The parks dept have done silly illegal restrictions in the recent past, most recently posting illegal signs trying to prohibit firearms on the centennial trail.

    With the closure of the kath rd area, there was a special county meeting and decision to close that specific area, observe:

    http://www.spokanecounty.org/data/en...ngLtrofRec.pdf

    this above info was found on the same website that showed that Antoine peak had no such shooting restrictions, which leads me to believe that it would be the proper website to find such information, and would lead me to believe that this is just another example of the parks dept trying to regulate things that they should have no control over.

    Does the parks dept have the authority to regulate discharge of firearms? Is that a "local municipality?"

    Based on what I read here, the Shooting Area Advisory Committee made a recommendation to the Spokane county commissioners, who then voted to pass the recommendations. So the DNR has to go through more loops and hoops to close an area then the county parks dept?

    On a side note: As I have read the states preemption, "trashing a place" as tragic as it is, is not legal reason to close public land to recreational shooters.
    Last edited by MattinWA; 09-08-2013 at 07:00 PM.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Concerning Shooting versus Mere Possession the State Legislature has given limited authority to cities, counties etc to enact ordinance restricting the discharge of firearms but does not apply if one is acting in self defense or of another.

    RCW 9.41.300

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

    (3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.

    (b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.

    (4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
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    Regular Member BigDeeeeeeee's Avatar
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    I think the extra pressure of the koth rd site closure will be the straw that breaks the hayden creek site too. It's just a matter of time.

    http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_n...90da71ce7.html
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    So the consensus is that the parks dept IS the final say on if firearms can be discharged on public lands they control, even outside of city limits? That is authority enough under our states preemption? No one has addressed the original question.

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others;


    ^Would suggest that the parks dept is not able to just say, "you can not shoot here" as it is not a city, town or county lawmaking body...
    Last edited by MattinWA; 09-08-2013 at 09:27 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I had an AG opinion not so long ago that showed no shooting zones must meet specific qualifications otherwise they cannot restrict.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I had an AG opinion not so long ago that showed no shooting zones must meet specific qualifications otherwise they cannot restrict.
    Is that in PDF form?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    So I was dismayed today, my local shooting spot at kath road by newman lake has been shut down for recreational shooters by the county. I was doing a search and the Antoine Peak area, even closer to my house, is apparently not on the map of restricted shooting areas in Spokane county:

    http://www.spokanecounty.org/data/en...17July2013.pdf

    The area is public land, owned and operated by the parks dept. I understand the parks dept has a history of spreading disinformation, and according to their website, the area is off limits to shooters:


    http://www.spokanecounty.org/parks/content.aspx?c=2458

    How can I be sure this place is available to shooters, without tipping the county off to this "loophole"
    ?
    yah, the site of kath wash shut down beginning of sept.. which sucks cuz I use to go there a lot and always hauled out bags and bags of garbage. One of the neighbors stopped by to give me some sh!t only to find me out there with a rake and garbage bags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imalurker View Post
    yah, the site of kath wash shut down beginning of sept.. which sucks cuz I use to go there a lot and always hauled out bags and bags of garbage. One of the neighbors stopped by to give me some sh!t only to find me out there with a rake and garbage bags.
    Ya I have hauled stuff out too, really is a bummer.

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDeeeeeeee View Post
    I think the extra pressure of the koth rd site closure will be the straw that breaks the hayden creek site too. It's just a matter of time.

    http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_n...90da71ce7.html
    They were on TV the other night talking about Hayden Creek. The FS? was practically begging the users to clean up the site, and clean up their act or they would have to close the site because of environmental contamination regulation. They then showed a group of volunteers picking up trash in a dump...ya, that is how bad it looked.

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    Does anybody know of other nearby areas to shoot? Hayden creek is kinda far...

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Yea, not really looking for a structured range, those places drive me nuts. I would rather spend that money on more rounds.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    They are not all "structured" ranges. There are a bunch of gravel pits listed.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I just love how not a single place on that map is in the city of Seattle. Fun times for me
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