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Appleton open carry detainment at gun point

OC for ME

OC for ME

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Sure, but this ain't a long gun centric cite. There is a rule and if ya don't like the rule hit the bricks. The fact that this thread remains means to me that the owners see some value to this story and have not deep sixed it. If this thread remains alive how about we focus on the story, minimize the LG part, and bask in the owners largesse.
 
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ccwinstructor

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The Time Has Come for re-normalization of the open carry of rifles

I have thought about this an come to the conclusion that the time has come for the re-normalization of open carry of rifles.

Rifle and shotgun carry was considered normal in New York City up into the early 1960's.

It has always been legal in Wisconsin.

The reaction of the Walgreen Manager is an anecdotal reinforcement that most people do not see anything wrong or threatening about the carry of slung rifles. The ubiquitous presence of Israeli babes carrying M-16s and other weapons in pictorals on the Internet has helped with this re-normalization.

We have won the open carry battle for pistols.

Now we just need to educate the police about the law for rifles. This is a great opportunity to do that. The AR-15 type rifle has finally replaced the 1903A3/Mauser/Model 70 Winchester as the sporting rifle for this generation. This is clear by the extraordiary sales of such rifles over the years of the Obama Administration.

Rifle carry is ripe for normalizaiton in most of the country.
 
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Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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ccwinstructor said:
I have thought about this an come to the conclusion that the time has come for the re-normalization of open carry of rifles.

Rifle and shotgun carry was considered normal in New York City up into the early 1960's.

It has always been legal in Wisconsin.

The reaction of the Walgreen Manager is an anecdotal reinforcement that most people do not see anything wrong or threatening about the carry of slung rifles. The ubiquitous presence of Israeli babes carrying M-16s and other weapons in pictorals on the Internet has helped with this re-normalization.

We have won the open carry battle for pistols.

Now we just need to educate the police about the law for rifles. This is a great opportunity to do that. The AR-15 type rifle has finally replaced the 1903A3/Mauser/Model 70 Winchester as the sporting rifle for this generation. This is clear by the extraordiary sales of such rifles over the years of the Obama Administration.

Rifle carry is ripe for normalizaiton in most of the country.
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May we presume you are starting your own site - LGOC? See the Forum Rules

Don't see that the battle has been won re the open carry of handguns - believe we are winning though. It just isn't a done deal; we can't rest on our laurels.

There are the obvious/well known areas of resistance: TX, NY, CA, IL + major cities like Denver. Some states do not allow OC w/o a permit or restrict that activity in certain areas - not acceptable.

Even in Virginia there are unnecessary limitations - I'll continue to fight the good fight.
 
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ccwinstructor

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The rules on this site are up to the owners. I will support them.

I support opencarry.org. I will abide by the rules, I can see that the article/thread is close to the edge, but I think it is valuable.
 
Baked on Grease

Baked on Grease

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ccwinstructor said:
I support opencarry.org. I will abide by the rules, I can see that the article/thread is close to the edge, but I think it is valuable.
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My view on this is that we are not discussing Long Gun OC, we are talking about the abuse of police power and the violations of a person's Rights... long guns happen to be a part of the story but I don't see them as the focus.

We can discuss the violations just fine without talking about long guns. I see them as incidental to the story, noth8ng more.

Are we to ignore every story that happens to have long guns in it only because they were involved, no matter how egregious the actions of the officers involved?

We are not debating whether we should have LGOC or not [I agree that would violate the rule] but rather the abuses involved.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
 
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ccwinstructor

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I do not see anyone debating whether we should have long gun open carry or not

Long gun open carry or not is not the issue. It is legal to openly carry long guns in the vast majority of states already. For example it is legal in Texas.

The issue is whether open carry of long guns helps us incrementally restore our constitutional rights. There is some contention about that.

I feel a legitimate topic for discussion would be whether an open carry picnic in Appleton would be appropriate or useful.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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Read, understand, and follow the rule please.

ccwinstructor said:
Long gun open carry or not is not the issue. It is legal to openly carry long guns in the vast majority of states already. For example it is legal in Texas.

The issue is whether open carry of long guns helps us incrementally restore our constitutional rights. There is some contention about that.

I feel a legitimate topic for discussion would be whether an open carry picnic in Appleton would be appropriate or useful.
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14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
 
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ccwinstructor

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I thought I was saying the same thing, and turning the topic to an Open carry picnic!

Grapeshot said:

14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
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Sorry if I was too wordy.
 
Grapeshot

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[QUOTE ccwinstructor
I thought I was saying the same thing, and turning the topic to an Open carry picnic![/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Grapeshot

14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.

Sorry if I was too wordy.
​
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ccwinstructor said:
Sorry if I was too wordy.
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Sometimes it is a fine line. Person or persons might bring a long gun to a picnic or rally - see no problem with that where legal, but we will not encourage/promote/suggest doing that.

The difficulty within our rules is when it is promoted or made the central topic. OTOH - the arrest of someone for doing something otherwise legal (long gun carry) is well within either the General Discussion sub-forum or the state in which it occurred, IF the discussion remains focused on the violation/prosecution, rather than making the long gun the principal reason for the post or thread..

I apologize for any confusing created by this explanation - Occasionally it is a judgement call.
 
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ccwinstructor

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Chuckley (the op) has not replied. If might be on advise of counsel

OC for ME said:
The next step is for the wronged citizens to take the next obvious step. Without their action we are flappin our yaps.
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I have never seen such a clear case for 18 USC. I am not a lawyer, but here you have police officers, in the middle of their job, on tape, openly discussing (conspiring) how to violate these guys constitutional rights. One of them brags about violating the First Amendment on tape!

The only thing that saves it for the department is that someone higher up tells them not to arrest them.

Luckily, no one was shot or beat up. I wonder what dashcams might reveal.

It is obvious that the open carriers were not a threat, the officers mention that they are civil rights activists in the video, so there is no reason to handcuff them and keep them locked up in the squad car.

It may not be a big settlement in dollars, though if the department chooses to fight it, the lawyers fees could be substantial.

Hard to see that it does not result in significant training changes in the department, maybe the state.

I can see the audio clip being played in training sessions all over the State.

The officer who said "This ain't going on on YouTube" could become a minor version of the officer who shot himself in the leg with a Glock after saying he was the only person in the room capable of handing one.

I foresee the memo going out to police: If you see a recorder, do not touch it. Do not say anything about it. If it can be construed that you attempted to turn it off, you could be sued for damages under 18 USC, and the department will not support you.
 
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marshaul

marshaul

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Great points.

While the average citizen might not see "civil rights activism" (hence my criticism of AR OC), these police clearly did, which throws any possible justification for their taking an interest in the first place right out the window (they didn't even have RAS for a Terry stop!). Not that there would ever have been justification for their aggressive, criminal actions.

I hope they get their comeuppance.
 
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L

Law abider

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Ellsworth Wisconsin
ccwinstructor said:
I have never seen such a clear case for 18 USC. I am not a lawyer, but here you have police officers, in the middle of their job, on tape, openly discussing (conspiring) how to violate these guys constitutional rights. One of them brags about violating the First Amendment on tape!

The only thing that saves it for the department is that someone higher up tells them not to arrest them.

Luckily, no one was shot or beat up. I wonder what dashcams might reveal.

It is obvious that the open carriers were not a threat, the officers mention that they are civil rights activists in the video, so there is no reason to handcuff them and keep them locked up in the squad car.

It may not be a big settlement in dollars, though if the department chooses to fight it, the lawyers fees could be substantial.

Hard to see that it does not result in significant training changes in the department, maybe the state.

I can see the audio clip being played in training sessions all over the Stat
The officer who said "This ain't going on on YouTube" could become a minor version of the officer who shot himself in the leg with a Glock after saying he was the only person in the room capable of handing one.

I foresee the memo going out to police: If you see a recorder, do not touch it. Do not say anything about it. If it can be construed that you attempted to turn it off, you could be sued for damages under 18 USC, and the department will not support you.
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Good to see he is seeking counsel. Why is it that leos get away with blatant violations of rights without consequences? If it was us....
 
Grapeshot

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