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Thread: MI resident OC on Motorcycle in OH

  1. #1
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    MI resident OC on Motorcycle in OH

    Hi! I am a Michigan resident, holder of a MI concealed pistols license, and regularly OC here in MI.

    I've reviewed Ohio law and reciprocity agreement with MI, and find nothing to worry about with regard to OC'ing while traveling on my motorcycle in OH. I would just like to confirm I have it right, and haven't missed anything. Thanks!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

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    I was just asking questions about OC and motorcycles on another site.

    Ohio is an OC state you should be able to walk around in Ohio while OCing even though you are not a citizen of Ohio.

    When you get on your motorcycle you are then 'transporting' a fire arm. Therefore you need a permit.
    Since OH recognizes MI permits you should be fine.

    I too OC while on my motorcycle. So far just in OH.

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    The above post reflects my understanding of OH law also. Watch out for those pesky school zones. Some will say that your MI license does not protect you from violating the federal GFSZ laws while your are in OH. I disagree, but don't want to be the test case.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys. Carry on!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    ...Some will say that your MI license does not protect you from violating the federal GFSZ laws while your are in OH. I disagree, but don't want to be the test case.
    Depends on whether a judge would agree that licensing is transitive in nature. You have a MI license, OH recognizes your license, so you are licensed by the state via the Attorney General's reciprocity agreement.

    The actual federal law exempts you:
    ...if the individual possessing the firearm is
    licensed to do so by the State in which the
    school zone is located...
    Does a recognized out-of-state license IN the State of Ohio mean that you are licensed BY the State of Ohio?

    The law does NOT say the license has to be ISSUED by the state, or that one must possess a 'state' license, only that the "individual" is "licensed" by the state. I think a reciprocity agreement with another state, combined with the Full Faith and Credit clause of the U.S. Constitution, would satisfy the "licensed to do so" requirement of the law.

    But I don't want to be a test case, either. Federal level stuff is expensive.

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    To me, it would depend on how the courts understand the concept of "being licensed by the State where the school is located." If they think it means having the physical piece of paper called a "license" (or sometimes called a "permit") issued by the State where the school is located, then the MI permission slip is useless against GFSZ in OH. If, however, they apply a broader dictionary definition of "being licensed" as meaning "having permission," then one who has a MI permission slip has the permission of that State (OH) where the school is located and is, therefore, "licensed by the State (OH) where the school is located."

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Yep.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    IMO a person must be licensed by the state in which the school zone is located and have a background check conducted by that same state. Even if Ohio considers the Michigan resident to be "licensed" they still cannot knowingly be within 1,000 feet of a school or on school property.

    ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
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    While both sides of this discussion make valid points, I assert the following. I highly doubt, but do not specifically deny the possibility, that LEO's are sitting at the 1000' mark watching for passing traffic just to specifically pull people over and arrest them for violation of the Federal GFSZ. If you're simply driving through, I very highly doubt you have much to worry about. Now, if you plan and being stationary for an extended period within said 1000', say where ever you're staying falls in that box, then I could see there being an issue worth worrying about. Just my $0.02, for whatever that is worth.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJack View Post
    While both sides of this discussion make valid points, I assert the following. I highly doubt, but do not specifically deny the possibility, that LEO's are sitting at the 1000' mark watching for passing traffic just to specifically pull people over and arrest them for violation of the Federal GFSZ. If you're simply driving through, I very highly doubt you have much to worry about. Now, if you plan and being stationary for an extended period within said 1000', say where ever you're staying falls in that box, then I could see there being an issue worth worrying about. Just my $0.02, for whatever that is worth.
    I highly doubt you'll have issues mainly due to the fact Ohio police are not supposed to be enforcing federal law. However, if one was to be 100% legal, they'd need to be licensed by the state which the school zone is located and that licensee would need to have to go through a background check by law enforcement authorities of that state to obtain the license.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    IMO a person must be licensed by the state in which the school zone is located and have a background check conducted by that same state. Even if Ohio considers the Michigan resident to be "licensed" they still cannot knowingly be within 1,000 feet of a school or on school property.
    OH only reciprocates with States that have similar requirements for investigation and training. So the "requirement" is met with a reciprocated license. You'd have a point if OH reciprocated with a State that did not require a BG check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OH only reciprocates with States that have similar requirements for investigation and training. So the "requirement" is met with a reciprocated license. You'd have a point if OH reciprocated with a State that did not require a BG check.
    Someday I should sit down and try to figure out what, specifically, prevents OH and CO reciprocity.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    Someday I should sit down and try to figure out what, specifically, prevents OH and CO reciprocity.
    I seem to recall it was because the background check peformed for an Ohio CHL didn't include the FBI check as standard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    Someday I should sit down and try to figure out what, specifically, prevents OH and CO reciprocity.
    Best guess, off the top of my head? Colorado requires your competency training to have been completed in the last 10 years, Ohio is 3 years. Also not sure how many hours CO classes have to be, ours is 12 as of right now.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    On my infrequent visits to Ohio on the motorcycle I also open carry, full time.

    Haven't had any problems at all, even in Ashland last month where I sat at a light with a local LEO sitting in the car next to me.

    When the light changed, we both went on our ways.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OH only reciprocates with States that have similar requirements for investigation and training. So the "requirement" is met with a reciprocated license. You'd have a point if OH reciprocated with a State that did not require a BG check.
    OH does not conduct background checks and issue licenses to MI residents or residents of other states for that matter. The law specifically states "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State" just because OH recognizes my permit does not mean they're the one who licenses me to carry there, Michigan does. I suppose you could try to say that because OH recognizes my permit they consider me to be licensed by them, but from what I can tell that's not how it works. Here is the part though that really keeps them from doing that if they did "and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license." From the way I read it unless the person has an OH license and OH or a political subdivision requires a background check by the law enforcement then the person cannot knowingly carry within 1,000 feet of a school.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    If you read what I wrote earlier, there are two legitimate readings of "is licensed by."

    I won't bother to restate the argument. If you didn't notice it the first time, it's still there and you can go back and read it. It is available for others to read also.

    If you'd like to discuss my actual argument, let's. Otherwise, meh.

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