How to handle a officer who feels he needs to disarm you ?

Just as stated I want fact and personal opinion on this one. How would you handle it, what laws could you quote and would you let a leo of any kind disarm you for any reason other than full blown arrest?

Be sure to record the encounter, if the disarming is at odds with state law get a judge to say that to that cop. A cop who decides to disarm you at that time believes that he has the authority to do so as a result of the officer safety canard. Every now and then a cop will verbalize the reason for disarming is to check the serial number. Most cops are likely far more savvy these days. Officer safety is the reason and it will be the rare judge to dispute that cops claim. You may receive a redress of wrongs, later, but you are very very unlikely to prevent the seizure on the sidewalk.

Do nothing to prevent a cop from disarming you.

I don't see why you can't just say 'I'd prefer nobody touches the firearm, if that's OK by you; it's safest when it stays in the holster'. That way you are showing that you want it to be in the holster and he's not concerned that you'll be reckless.

I think that works sometimes. But as some say, don't resist.

I appreciate both opinions I have received so far... keep them coming. The whole reason I even bring this up is, when I first started carrying I had a run in with a TN state trooper at a normal traffic stop. He walked up to the vehicle and leaned down to notice my hands on the wheel as so may preach about doing at a traffic stop. His first words to me where is their a weapon in this vehicle. Me trying my hardest not to be a smart a** and say yes theirs a tire iron in the trunk lol, I refrained my self and said yes I have a Springfield 9MM on my hip which is covered by my seat belt... Saying this to re assure him it would be almost impossible for me to even reach the gun. Pointless I guess because his next action was to ask me to remove my pistol from the holster and hand it to him, which required me to unlatch my seat belt just to even be able to remove the weapon from my side. With out any hesitation I informed him of this and he rested his hand on his sidearm and asked me to proceed. I removed the 9mm and as he had ask spun it around and handed my loaded gun to him grip first... (all before even asking for any identification from me) As i handed him the firearm I stated I'm permitted by the state of TN. He struggled with the gun as he asked if it was loaded and I told him yes it was. After trying to pull the slide back a couple of time he then asked it the gun had a malfunction... This being a very new firearm I replied that he needed to put a little more force on the slide. He did so and the round in the chamber falls out to the ground. He then removed the mag and place it on the roof of my car, a pet peeve of mine (i place nothing on my cars paint NOTHING) lol. Then he picked up the round he dropped and asks... Is this police issue ammunition to which i responded no. That is hornady critical defense ammunition. He also badgered me about where it was purchased... (side note i was under the assumption that there was no such thing as police only use ammunition) After all was said and done he stuck the gun in the back of his pants and ask for all my assorted paper work and wrote me a ticket for window tint of all things. End of story Handed me all my belongings back including the gun unloaded and told me he felt he should be the only one armed at a traffic stop and that i could not reload the gun till he had fully left my line of sight. Felt like a lot of unnecessary hassle to me and thus this topic was started.

Wowwie!!!

xdsc9 said:

I appreciate both opinions I have received so far... keep them coming. The whole reason I even bring this up is, when I first started carrying I had a run in with a TN state trooper at a normal traffic stop. He walked up to the vehicle and leaned down to notice my hands on the wheel as so may preach about doing at a traffic stop. His first words to me where is their a weapon in this vehicle. Me trying my hardest not to be a smart a** and say yes theirs a tire iron in the trunk lol, I refrained my self and said yes I have a Springfield 9MM on my hip which is covered by my seat belt... Saying this to re assure him it would be almost impossible for me to even reach the gun. Pointless I guess because his next action was to ask me to remove my pistol from the holster and hand it to him, which required me to unlatch my seat belt just to even be able to remove the weapon from my side. With out any hesitation I informed him of this and he rested his hand on his sidearm and asked me to proceed. I removed the 9mm and as he had ask spun it around and handed my loaded gun to him grip first... (all before even asking for any identification from me) As i handed him the firearm I stated I'm permitted by the state of TN. He struggled with the gun as he asked if it was loaded and I told him yes it was. After trying to pull the slide back a couple of time he then asked it the gun had a malfunction... This being a very new firearm I replied that he needed to put a little more force on the slide. He did so and the round in the chamber falls out to the ground. He then removed the mag and place it on the roof of my car, a pet peeve of mine (i place nothing on my cars paint NOTHING) lol. Then he picked up the round he dropped and asks... Is this police issue ammunition to which i responded no. That is hornady critical defense ammunition. He also badgered me about where it was purchased... (side note i was under the assumption that there was no such thing as police only use ammunition) After all was said and done he stuck the gun in the back of his pants and ask for all my assorted paper work and wrote me a ticket for window tint of all things. End of story Handed me all my belongings back including the gun unloaded and told me he felt he should be the only one armed at a traffic stop and that i could not reload the gun till he had fully left my line of sight. Felt like a lot of unnecessary hassle to me and thus this topic was started.

Click to expand...

Sooo here is the thing,,, Racking a round out of the chamber, to fall on the ground, while the mag is still in the gun,,,
means that a new round was then loaded!
Removing the mag at that time does not negate the fact that the gun is still loaded!

Was the gun loaded when he handed it back to you?

Here is what the law says about a LEO disarming a permit holder.

39-17-1351(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.

So what it boils down to is a "judgment call" by the LEO. Most of the time I imagine it would be hard to disprove his belief wasn't reasonable. But even if could I know of no criminal penalty.

I have no doubt that some LEOs and/or LEAs have used this to just simply disarm everyone regardless. But despite this misuse I don't see the law changing anytime soon.

When the law first went into effect it was pretty common for LEOs to disarm people, over the years it seems I've heard less stories of that, but guess it still happens. This is one reason since TN is not a must inform state, the few times I've been stopped I have not notified except maybe once.

Of course I've never directly been asked if there were any weapons in the vehicle either....so that could be another situation I may have to deal with at some point.

The OPer's question is too imprecise.

First, lets clarify it. "...feels he needs to disarm you."

This aspect of a copfrontation is going to come in three forms.

First, its going to be a consensual request from the cop--phrase and voice tone making it obvious its a request that can be turned down by the OCer. If that is the case, I would just politely refuse consent to surrendering my sidearm temporarily.

Second, its going to be a demand. That is to say a declaration along the lines of, "I am going to remove your gun..." I would not resist, but would still politely refuse consent. "I will not resist, officer, but do not consent."

Third, its going to be an ambiguous statement. Cops are good at this. They use polite "request" language, but their tone of voice makes it clear they won't accept noncompliance. I would treat this as a demand. That is to say, I would not physically resist. While still politely refusing consent.


I like Maverick9's method of refusing consent: "I'd prefer nobody touches...safest in holster."

Of course, for all copfrontations that are not traffic stops, the first words out of my mouth are, "No offense officer, but I do not consent to an encounter with you." This immediately removes all doubt about whether the encounter itself is consensual or not; and throws the legal ball in his court--now, he must have genuine reasonable suspicion to continue the encounter (See Terry v Ohio, and subsequent, related cases.)

A couple other points.

One, I would never hand over the gun. Touching a gun in the presence of a cop can be deadly. The president of VCDL relates the story of a motorist shot and killed because the partner of the officer at the drivers door didn't hear the request to hand over the gun. The partner only saw the driver reaching into the glove box for the gun, thus shooting the driver. If he's made a demand, let the officer get the gun himself. "I'm willing to step out of the car and let you get the gun officer." On a side note, if you can get it on audio-video that the cop requested you hand him your gun, you've got proof that he did not consider you dangerous.

You can lay a little trap for the cop, too. When he returns the gun, just ask innocently, "So, the serial number came back clean?" If he says yes on audio/video, you've got his confession he ran the serial number. Depending on the circumstances, that may play to your advantage. For example, Arizona v Hicks makes it clear a cop needs probable cause to search a serial number that is not in plain view. If your gun was for example in a holster between the seats and the cop took the gun with the holster still around the gun back to his car, and he had to remove the gun from the holster to view the serial number, but did not have probable cause to think the gun was stolen, then he performed an illegal search under Arizona v Hicks. There's a an old thread around here somewhere discussing a bit of electrical tape and whatnot to cover serial numbers.

xdsc9 said:

I appreciate both opinions I have received so far... keep them coming. The whole reason I even bring this up is, when I first started carrying I had a run in with a TN state trooper at a normal traffic stop. He walked up to the vehicle and leaned down to notice my hands on the wheel as so may preach about doing at a traffic stop. His first words to me where is their a weapon in this vehicle. Me trying my hardest not to be a smart a** and say yes theirs a tire iron in the trunk lol, I refrained my self and said yes I have a Springfield 9MM on my hip which is covered by my seat belt... Saying this to re assure him it would be almost impossible for me to even reach the gun. Pointless I guess because his next action was to ask me to remove my pistol from the holster and hand it to him, which required me to unlatch my seat belt just to even be able to remove the weapon from my side. With out any hesitation I informed him of this and he rested his hand on his sidearm and asked me to proceed. I removed the 9mm and as he had ask spun it around and handed my loaded gun to him grip first... (all before even asking for any identification from me) As i handed him the firearm I stated I'm permitted by the state of TN. He struggled with the gun as he asked if it was loaded and I told him yes it was. After trying to pull the slide back a couple of time he then asked it the gun had a malfunction... This being a very new firearm I replied that he needed to put a little more force on the slide. He did so and the round in the chamber falls out to the ground. He then removed the mag and place it on the roof of my car, a pet peeve of mine (i place nothing on my cars paint NOTHING) lol. Then he picked up the round he dropped and asks... Is this police issue ammunition to which i responded no. That is hornady critical defense ammunition. He also badgered me about where it was purchased... (side note i was under the assumption that there was no such thing as police only use ammunition) After all was said and done he stuck the gun in the back of his pants and ask for all my assorted paper work and wrote me a ticket for window tint of all things. End of story Handed me all my belongings back including the gun unloaded and told me he felt he should be the only one armed at a traffic stop and that i could not reload the gun till he had fully left my line of sight. Felt like a lot of unnecessary hassle to me and thus this topic was started.

Click to expand...

That cop proved he didn't consider you dangerous or a threat.

No cop would ever ask a threat to hand him the gun.

Arguing the legality of something on the side of the road/on the sidewalk is almost always a losing proposition for the one saying the cop is doing something illegal. As repeated, but never enough, record the interaction. Then bring the matter to the one person in our society who is designated to decide the legality of the matter - a judge. With the coverage of bad police behavior increasing it is hetting less difficult to find an attorney who is willing to take such a case. The problem is separating the ambulance chasers who just see a contingency fee from the ones that not only see that contingency fee but see the actual wrongness. However, I'll take an ambulance chaser who can win te case over not bringing the case to trial at all.

As for "handling"" the officer - I suggest you be gentle in your actions and your words. No sudden movements, keep your hands away from the handgun, refrain from discussing your assessment of his genetic heritage and educational attainments. Be polite but persistent if you see any unsafe handling of the firearm. Do not reach out to attempt to take the firearm or even move it so it does not point at you - but be assertive in repeating your concern until the unsafe action no longer exists. For example, if you see him rack the slide to remove the round from the chamber without first taking out tje magazine, point the error out without calling him names or grabbing his wrists to force the gun to be pointed in any specific direction. Among other things that is what your audio or video recorder is for.

I had an officer lawfully and appropriately disarm me (I was arrrested) and then try to empty my handgun. It has a "European magazine release" which he was utterly unfamiliar with. I informed him, when he racked the slide without first removing te magazine, that all he did was put a different round in the chamber. He asked how to remove the magazine but seemed incapable of doing so, so we agreed that he would be better off racking the slide until there were no more rounds in the magazine or in the chamber. The lack of a slide stop also befuddled him, but his terror was resolved when I suggested he stick his pen in the ejection port to keep the slide from returning fully.

Again, all this was done with calmness on both sides. I even agreed with his request not to tell the other officers who showed up about his problems getting the magazine removed.

stay safe.

1245A Defender said:

Sooo here is the thing,,, Racking a round out of the chamber, to fall on the ground, while the mag is still in the gun,,,
means that a new round was then loaded!
Removing the mag at that time does not negate the fact that the gun is still loaded!

Was the gun loaded when he handed it back to you?

Click to expand...

so when he pulled the slide he locked it back and then he removed the mag so no there was never a round re chambered and he followed it by sticking the gun with slide locked back in the back of his pants

as for the " prefer to keep it in the holster" thing i will remember that the next encounter i have... i still need a recorder havent had time to pick a new one up the old one finally quit on me (due for upgrade anyways not enough record time)

...

thanks for the clarification of that important point.

Citizen said:

The OPer's question is too imprecise.

First, lets clarify it. "...feels he needs to disarm you."

This aspect of a copfrontation is going to come in three forms.

First, its going to be a consensual request from the cop--phrase and voice tone making it obvious its a request that can be turned down by the OCer. If that is the case, I would just politely refuse consent to surrendering my sidearm temporarily.

Second, its going to be a demand. That is to say a declaration along the lines of, "I am going to remove your gun..." I would not resist, but would still politely refuse consent. "I will not resist, officer, but do not consent."

Third, its going to be an ambiguous statement. Cops are good at this. They use polite "request" language, but their tone of voice makes it clear they won't accept noncompliance. I would treat this as a demand. That is to say, I would not physically resist. While still politely refusing consent.


I like Maverick9's method of refusing consent: "I'd prefer nobody touches...safest in holster."

Of course, for all copfrontations that are not traffic stops, the first words out of my mouth are, "No offense officer, but I do not consent to an encounter with you." This immediately removes all doubt about whether the encounter itself is consensual or not; and throws the legal ball in his court--now, he must have genuine reasonable suspicion to continue the encounter (See Terry v Ohio, and subsequent, related cases.)

A couple other points.

One, I would never hand over the gun. Touching a gun in the presence of a cop can be deadly. The president of VCDL relates the story of a motorist shot and killed because the partner of the officer at the drivers door didn't hear the request to hand over the gun. The partner only saw the driver reaching into the glove box for the gun, thus shooting the driver. If he's made a demand, let the officer get the gun himself. "I'm willing to step out of the car and let you get the gun officer." On a side note, if you can get it on audio-video that the cop requested you hand him your gun, you've got proof that he did not consider you dangerous.

You can lay a little trap for the cop, too. When he returns the gun, just ask innocently, "So, the serial number came back clean?" If he says yes on audio/video, you've got his confession he ran the serial number. Depending on the circumstances, that may play to your advantage. For example, Arizona v Hicks makes it clear a cop needs probable cause to search a serial number that is not in plain view. If your gun was for example in a holster between the seats and the cop took the gun with the holster still around the gun back to his car, and he had to remove the gun from the holster to view the serial number, but did not have probable cause to think the gun was stolen, then he performed an illegal search under Arizona v Hicks. There's a an old thread around here somewhere discussing a bit of electrical tape and whatnot to cover serial numbers.

Click to expand...

really appreciate this post and will always use this info in the future

When he asked for my pistol he had no tone or attitude but i gave him no reason for it either so with that being said it was a consensual request...


"No offense officer, but I do not consent to an encounter with you." will definitely be my go to phrase from this point on (non traffic stop related)

This is why I wear a duty belt.

I've been asked for my weapon a couple times. I unbuckle the belt, and hand the entire thing over so I don't have to unholster.


I'm not in tenn, and wv requires no permit to open carry. I've had to educate a couple Leo's on this as well. I always try to keep a copy of the handy dandy pamphlet that is on here and give it to whoever is hassling me.

Hassle is a strong word though. Amidst all the "confrontations" about my side arm, I've never felt hassled. I really don't mind handing over my firearm if asked at a traffic stop, because usually it's just you and the officer around here and putting myself in his/her shoes, I can understand the unease. Now in public is a different story, but that's never happened. I would never touch my side arm in public unless I was planning to discharge. But if it came down to it, the belt goes.

My usual mantra is "I will not consent to being disarmed, but I will not resist should you feel the need to do so." This covers you and it makes me feel like I'm not being a giant dick.

I would tell him "the 2nd amendment means nothing if you can just walk up and take my firearm"

and see his response

xdsc9 said:

Pointless I guess because his next action was to ask me to remove my pistol from the holster and hand it to him

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I would have refused. My personal opinion. People wonder why I tell people to buy body armor. I actually fear the police more than the criminals. They are reckless, know little about the constitution or the peoples rights. Their mantra is...I go home, whatever has to happen to you. Happens.

I would never touch my firearm if there are police around.

You are likely to get shot. Its caus belle as far as they are concerned. Especially the second one on the other side who never heard the request and saw you reach for your firearm.

My personal matra is...

I refuse all searches.

I actually don't have to talk to you. I might give you my name and perhaps my address, depending on what state I am in.

You need probable cause or reasonable suspicion, to stop, let alone , detain me..

I am not a criminal and do not have to be treated as such (as in carrying a firearm). Despite the travesty of various judges deciding that 'officer safety' is OK to destroy the 4th amendment, let me remind you that officers have:-

a) Training

b) Tactical awareness aka putting themselves in the best, most advantageous position, whilst putting you in the worst possible position.

c) body armor.

There is no 'real' excuse, to disarm a concealed or open carry holstered firearm carrier. When the firearm comes out of the holster, that changes. But retreat to cover, discussion and finally aimed fire comes to mind.

Its all about control. We are police officers and open carry, but despite the law. we don't want you having firearms. Sorry police officers. You don't make the laws.

Sorry, but if you are nervous nellies, then resign. You are TOTALLY unfit for the job.

But, they wail, 80 or whatever police officers were killed last year. Yes, stats are great. How many were on the job. How many were in traffic accidents on the job. How many were suicides. How many were illegal invasions of peoples homes and private property.

ADD: 5-years ago, i would have gone along with whatever the officer said. But I have been sickened by the callous abuse that many police officers mete out and the total, abject failure for the 'good officers' to reign in the abuses of their colleagues, due to the 'blue line' syndrome. aka don't squeal on the bad apples. Thanks to video, smartphone cameras etc. we are seeing how bad the abuses have become. in the 'old days', we believed the officers. Now, its out there and despite Federal court rulings that people can record police officers in public places, we still see police officers assault people, even on their own property, arrest them on 'interference', 'disorderly conduct' and other bogus charges, just for recording video. Open carriers in 'open carry states' have been arrested for disorderly conduct, just because they were 'open carrying' and other people reported them as they were 'nervous'. Yes, its legal to 'open carry' in various states, but some police officers in those states will file 'disorderly conduct' charges for just 'open carrying'. Really ?

By the way, after 30-years of driving, and 50-odd years of life, I have no charges, let alone convictions and don't even have a parking ticket.

When the state and police lose and abuse the trust of the people, there will be serious problems. Don't ever forget that.

Tackett said:

This is why I wear a duty belt.

I've been asked for my weapon a couple times. I unbuckle the belt, and hand the entire thing over so I don't have to unholster.


I'm not in tenn, and wv requires no permit to open carry. I've had to educate a couple Leo's on this as well. I always try to keep a copy of the handy dandy pamphlet that is on here and give it to whoever is hassling me.

Hassle is a strong word though. Amidst all the "confrontations" about my side arm, I've never felt hassled. I really don't mind handing over my firearm if asked at a traffic stop, because usually it's just you and the officer around here and putting myself in his/her shoes, I can understand the unease. Now in public is a different story, but that's never happened. I would never touch my side arm in public unless I was planning to discharge. But if it came down to it, the belt goes.

My usual mantra is "I will not consent to being disarmed, but I will not resist should you feel the need to do so." This covers you and it makes me feel like I'm not being a giant dick.

Click to expand...

With a lot of the recent news stories I've read, you have about as much reason to be uneasy.

I'm all for not purposely making a LEO uncomfortable, but dealing with a legally armed citizen is part of his job, I see no reason to voluntarily put myself at a disadvantage for his "comfort".

skidmark said:

<snip>

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"Please do not point my own weapon at me."

Let him figure out what to do on his own and then shout from the roof tops his ignorance and lack of weapon safety skills. Public humiliation, to whatever extent it occurs, can be useful.

Thanks Again

This forum is always full of strong minded folks with helpful information and I appreciate everyone's opinions and comments next time will definitely be handled differently and I'm sure we will see a next time my led foot almost guarantees it :banghead:

Maverick9 said:

I don't see why you can't just say 'I'd prefer nobody touches the firearm, if that's OK by you; it's safest when it stays in the holster'. That way you are showing that you want it to be in the holster and he's not concerned that you'll be reckless.

I think that works sometimes. But as some say, don't resist.

Click to expand...

I like this. You wanna say the same thing and use a phrase that might just startle some brain into the offender at the same time?

"Right now, there is no human contact on the firearm. The chance of a negligent discharge is 0%. Once a human touches the firearm in any way, the chance of a negligent discharge is greater than 0%. Serve and Protect me, Officer Friendly, by keeping it at 0%."

Once was pulled over while carrying in the center console. When officer said he wanted to secure my firearm, I got out of the car and locked it! The look on his face was priceless!!:lol: