How to handle a officer who feels he needs to disarm you ?

I've never had one ask to secure my firearm, but I've thought about it and I think that I'd in turn ask to secure his firearm for my security. Seeing as he's about 8 times my likely to shoot me than I am to shoot him...

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I would politely ask if I'm being detained.. If not I wouldn't consent to the interaction.


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-

mark-in-texas said:

Once was pulled over while carrying in the center console. When officer said he wanted to secure my firearm, I got out of the car and locked it! The look on his face was priceless!!:lol:

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+100

mark-in-texas said:

Once was pulled over while carrying in the center console. When officer said he wanted to secure my firearm, I got out of the car and locked it! The look on his face was priceless!!:lol:

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That's what you should do..just lock the freaking door, right?

Great job. Now the idiot has a choice...nothing or break the window or feel down your pants

mark-in-texas said:

Once was pulled over while carrying in the center console. When officer said he wanted to secure my firearm, I got out of the car and locked it! The look on his face was priceless!!:lol:

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well played sir, well played!

mark-in-texas said:

Once was pulled over while carrying in the center console. When officer said he wanted to secure my firearm, I got out of the car and locked it! The look on his face was priceless!!:lol:

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Like McBeth pointed out, you severely limited his options.

And, likely ruined his plan to run the serial number in an anti-4A search.

Too many variables to really give a good answer, but remember if we're talking about TN the officer can detain at the sight of the weapon solely to verify you're legally carrying it. I know many think that sucks, but it's how the law is here. Under 1307 it's illegal to carry a firearm and a defense is if you have a permit to carry. You can talk about "not consenting" or "am I detained" all you want, but in TN specifically the LEO can verify your legal status to carry absent anything any reasonable suspicion, PC, etc. The mere fact a gun is present gives the officer RS that a crime is being committed (i.e. violating 1307 if you don't have a HCP). NEVER reach for the weapon, make sudden movements, or in any way resist. That's simply not going to end well for you on the criminal and/or civil side. The officer has TN law on his side. If you really think the LEOs actions were inappropriate or even illegal, there are plenty of ways to deal with it after the contact has ended.

SgtScott31 said:

Too many variables to really give a good answer, but remember if we're talking about TN the officer can detain at the sight of the weapon solely to verify you're legally carrying it. I know many think that sucks, but it's how the law is here. Under 1307 it's illegal to carry a firearm and a defense is if you have a permit to carry. You can talk about "not consenting" or "am I detained" all you want, but in TN specifically the LEO can verify your legal status to carry absent anything any reasonable suspicion, PC, etc. The mere fact a gun is present gives the officer RS that a crime is being committed (i.e. violating 1307 if you don't have a HCP). NEVER reach for the weapon, make sudden movements, or in any way resist. That's simply not going to end well for you on the criminal and/or civil side. The officer has TN law on his side. If you really think the LEOs actions were inappropriate or even illegal, there are plenty of ways to deal with it after the contact has ended.

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Just curious...is it illegal to OC and/or CC a pistol without a permit in TN at all?? I thought this was resolved by the SCOTUS a couple years ago??

In TN you must have a HCP (handgun carry permit) to carry. The mode of carry seems not to matter.

Cop sees gun, you are breaking the law. A cop would be a idiot to not detain you, only long enough to check for a HCP.

Now, how many cops actually obey the law and detain every TN citizen they witness carrying a gun? How many cops detain a TN citizen they witness with a gun shaped bulge? How many cops?

OC for ME said:

Cop sees gun, you are breaking the law. A cop would be a idiot to not detain you, only long enough to check for a HCP.

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Seriously? How about a cop not detain me if I'm not doing anything wrong? He has no reason to believe I don't have an HCP. I know TN law allows it, but still.

What you can do legally depends on the state that you live in. Some states have laws that even if the cops do anything, you have to sit there and do nothing.

Q-Tip said:

Seriously? How about a cop not detain me if I'm not doing anything wrong? He has no reason to believe I don't have an HCP. I know TN law allows it, but still.

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I'd say about 95% of them do. It all depends on the circumstances so I try to ask OC folks not to jump the gun (no pun intended) when there's LEO interaction and you get disarmed. There are BOLOs sent out daily that can be ambiguous in nature sometimes so an officer may be acting on information through NCIC/NLETS when he stops you. You may not know what he knows and take his actions as completely unwarranted where in his mind he was either confirming or dispelling that you were someone that was either wanted or looked similar to a person involved in a nearby crime, etc.

If the LEO goes crazy overboard you still need to obey his commands, but go through the appropriate channels (with agency supervision) after the encounter.

Heck the geographical area can be a factor (i.e. rural v. urban v. airport ) in the officer's decision whether to approach or not.

Q-Tip said:

Seriously? How about a cop not detain me if I'm not doing anything wrong? He has no reason to believe I don't have an HCP. I know TN law allows it, but still.

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Technically, the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe you are committing an illegal act. I can't quote it offhand, but to the best on my knowledge the TN laws says something like, "it is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed ..." and then lists the exceptions. The suspicion will be that you are violating the main part of the code, not that you meet one of the exceptions.

You may contrast this with the driving license possession codes in most states that read similar to, "All drivers of vehicles on pubic roads must possess a valid driving license...."

Georgia had this same problem until a few years ago when SB308 modified the code from a presumption of guilt to a presumption of innocence. The law now reads that everyone carrying what is defined as a weapon must possess a valid license. No authority for an officer to demand it*, no penalty for not carrying it**.

*OCGA 40-5-29 (b) mandates that a driver shall display his license upon demand of an officer.
**OCGA 40-5-29 (c) authorizes a penalty of $10 if you have a license but don't have it on you when stopped. (Minus whatever charges warranted you being stopped, of course.)
N.B. Both subsections are invalid unless subsection (a) is met first, which states you must be operating a motor vehicle. Walking down the street? Feel free to tell Officer Friendly to pound sand about displaying anything unless receiving a citation, being arrested or you are a witness.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Technically, the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe you are committing an illegal act. I can't quote it offhand, but to the best on my knowledge the TN laws says something like, "it is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed ..." and then lists the exceptions. The suspicion will be that you are violating the main part of the code, not that you meet one of the exceptions.

You may contrast this with the driving license possession codes in most states that read similar to, "All drivers of vehicles on pubic roads must possess a valid driving license...."

Georgia had this same problem until a few years ago when SB308 modified the code from a presumption of guilt to a presumption of innocence. The law now reads that everyone carrying what is defined as a weapon must possess a valid license. No authority for an officer to demand it*, no penalty for not carrying it**.

*OCGA 40-5-29 (b) mandates that a driver shall display his license upon demand of an officer.
**OCGA 40-5-29 (c) authorizes a penalty of $10 if you have a license but don't have it on you when stopped. (Minus whatever charges warranted you being stopped, of course.)
N.B. Both subsections are invalid unless subsection (a) is met first, which states you must be operating a motor vehicle. Walking down the street? Feel free to tell Officer Friendly to pound sand about displaying anything unless receiving a citation, being arrested or you are a witness.

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Exceptions .... must be proved by the state that you do not meet one ... not RAS to stop you to make this determination. IMO

SgtScott31 said:

<snip> There are BOLOs sent out daily that can be ambiguous in nature sometimes so an officer may be acting on information through NCIC/NLETS when he stops you. You may not know what he knows and take his actions as completely unwarranted where in his mind he was either confirming or dispelling that you were someone that was either wanted or looked similar to a person involved in a nearby crime, etc.

If the LEO goes crazy overboard you still need to obey his commands, but go through the appropriate channels (with agency supervision) after the encounter.

Heck the geographical area can be a factor (i.e. rural v. urban v. airport ) in the officer's decision whether to approach or not.

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Most cops (I hope) likely get it right once they see with their own eyes, but there are a great many cops who will take no chances, and hope that their boss will keep them out of a jam if they make the wrong judgement call based on their belief. SgtScott31 is right to take no chances and hope for the best, the odds of he being held to account if he were to get it wrong, based on a false belief, are very low. Or, the consequences he must endure are minimal if any.

Remember, you must never resist a cop no matter what he does, or how egregious his conduct.

Record the incident and then pursue a redress of wrongs after the incident, if you are able to do so.

Do not trust any cop who approaches you, or his LEA after the fact, as SgtScott31 correctly points out, you have no idea what is inside the mind of that cop's head or in the "mind" of his LEA..

OC for ME said:

Remember, you must never resist a cop no matter what he does, or how egregious his conduct.

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That's what I understand (state specific of course) ... sure, I'll sure that all will follow THAT law ...

Of course, that's why we have juries...

Most of you know I had a little run in with a local (bellingham,Wa) LEO who wanted to bully me using the pistol as an excuse. His name was Officer ALLEN BASS.

It started off as simple conversation, but went south quickly. Young Officer Allen Bass demanded my ID, I declined. Young Officer Allen Bass demanded my weapon while his was out, in his hand and pointed at my pretty little belly button. I, again, declined. I stated the fourth amendment and the fact that he was being unsafe with his own weapon and did not feel safe giving him another. I was very firm of voice. I kept my eyes on his eyes (window to the soul), he kept his eyes on my weapon. This was a very, very scared policeman.
Every contact can be deadly. You do not know anything about the LEO. Did his wife pee him off at breakfast? Did he get chewed out at roll call? Is he just an arrogant icehole? Or did you encounter a regular Joe just doing his/her job. The same can be said of us and our appearance.
It is a scary world out there. Smile, be polite, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet. I believe in that. As you approach me, the scenarios are running thru my head and wether I use those methods depend on you.
Be safe, be aware, be happy and most of all be breathing


AMENDMENT IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Cops can and do make snap judgements on what they think, or would like to think, the law is. They make decisions on what they think they see, or what they want to see (Santa Rosa, CA incident). Sometimes they get bum info from dispatch, and sometimes they think up bum info all on their own to justify their getting it wrong.

Anyway, do not ever resist a cop.....ever, your life depends on it. Invoke your rights by simply and calmly verbalizing them in the briefest of statements and then sit back and comply with, or do not interfere with, the cop's demands.

Do all you can do, when confronted by a cop, to get home at the end of the day.

Not bad, but to complete the assignment of that quote's premise to today requires a cop to eliminate any possibility of any repercussions from any quarter.....if ya know what I mean.

Nope, a cop wants your gun, let him take it. Assuming room temperature is not worth the gun, and your family winning a law suit with you maintaining a room temperature temperature is placed in greater peril.

A talking victim of police misconduct is far better than your heirs trying to convince a jury that you were a victim of police misconduct.

davidmcbeth said:

Exceptions .... must be proved by the state that you do not meet one ... not RAS to stop you to make this determination. IMO

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I don't believe you are correct, sir. The officer is not legally obligated to consider each and every facet that may prove conduct is innocent. He merely has to observe conduct that a reasonable man would consider criminal.

While a person may have the most innocent of reasons to be running down the road while holding a bag from which there is a stream of orange smoke while the police are responding to a silent bank robbery call; the police are not required to consider that you always keep your money in bags and that your 5-year old just happened to sneak a smoke bomb into it that morning.

They have observed conduct consistent with an illegal act and have authority to investigate it. If you have no explanation as to why you have a bag full of smoking orange money, they aren't required to check the serial number of each bill to see if it was in the bank's possession mere minutes earlier. If you refuse (as is your right) to say anything, they have probable cause to make an arrest. It will easily be proven or disproven in court and since you've "not been harmed" there's no recovery to be made.


It's illegal to exceed the speed limit, but if you can prove necessity (such as being chased by a T-rex or to escape dozens of thug motorcyclists) then you won't be penalized.