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Recent encounter at a mall

jmonday7814

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Southern Arizona
A little bit of background on me:

I am new to this forum, but I am not new to firearms. I have some training and I handle all firearms responsibly at all times. With that being said, lately I have been trying to open carry more frequently because I don't know when a situation will arise that I will need to protect myself or other innocent people.

This past weekend I went to the mall with my girlfriend while open carrying a full-size firearm. This was a large public mall that does not serve alcohol to be consumed on the premises. I do have a CCW but on this occasion I chose to open carry. There are not any signs posted on the doors or near the doorway prohibiting firearms. While walking through the mall I was approached by mall security and told that I cannot have a firearm inside the mall and I must leave it in my vehicle. I followed the request only because I am unsure of my rights in this situation. Mall security specifically stated that there are signs posted but "they are very small" and that the mall is private property and they can ask me to leave my firearm in my vehicle.

Is the mall really private property?
Was I within my rights to carry openly inside the mall?
What would have been the best thing for me to do in this situation? Request that mall security contact local PD to verify my rights?
Would I have been better off just carrying concealed?
If a sign is not posted can a security officer ask me to leave the premises or leave my firearm in my car?

A slight concern with leaving the firearm in a vehicle is that someone may see me walk back to my car to leave the firearm there and break into my car to steal the firearm while I am inside the mall.

Thanks for all your help in advance.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Just because a store/mall is open to the public does not make it "public property." It is still privately owned.

Yes, they can enforce trespassing on any person for any reason, and they actually don't even have to tell you why. In this case, they do have the authority to tell people that they cannot bring in firearms.

So the best thing to do is leave and write to the stores that you were going to spend money in to tell them why you did not.

The signs themselves are legally meaningless here, though. You do not have to look for them, nor should you.
 
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FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
1st Welcome.

From your post it is clear you maynot have a full understanding of AZ gun law. That's ok, many don't and they can be a bit confusing and some are plan silly in particular related to signage. I strongly suggest you purchase a copy of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide by Mr. Alan Korwin and read it from cover to cover.
http://www.gunlaws.com/agog.htm

As posted above to remain in compliance with current ARS (Arizona Revised Statutes) you must comply (as you did) with the request of agents of a private property owner to leave or store your weapon when asked. Had you not you could have been charged with criminal trespass. Stay safe and carry on good Sir.

ETA- Note should you be asked to store your weapon ever again- depending the make (Glock, XD, M&P, Ruger SR etc..) I would recommend breaking the pistol down in your car (safely) and taking the barrel or most of the upper assemb. with you in your pocket(s). That way even if your vehicle is broken into, thugs only get parts, not a working gun. That should satisfy even the most picky mall ninja's. ;)

I have long advocated for a sticky in the AZ forum citing links to AZ fireams laws. To date no reply from the owners of this site? Hopefully in the future we'll get one. It would help others avoid the situation you found yourself in.
 
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jmonday7814

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Southern Arizona
thank you both for assistance, obviously my understanding of the laws was not accurate. I think to avoid situations like this in the future I need much more education on local laws. So, I will be ordering the book you suggested FreeinAZ, thanks again. And I will be ordering a IWB holster for my compact glock since this would avoid any situations like this. Although if for some reason they do see what I am carrying then I would have to abide by their request and leave it in the car.

I also like your suggestion of taking the gun apart so that a thief could only steal random pieces of it, I will keep that in mind next time I am in a similar situation.

Thanks again for the information!
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...And I will be ordering a IWB holster for my compact glock since this would avoid any situations like this. Although if for some reason they do see what I am carrying then I would have to abide by their request and leave it in the car...

I might humbly suggest something different altogether. Refuse to do business with places that require you to be disarmed as a condition of you patronizing them. There are plenty of places in AZ that can handle anything you need without disarming you.
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
thank you both for assistance, obviously my understanding of the laws was not accurate. I think to avoid situations like this in the future I need much more education on local laws. So, I will be ordering the book you suggested FreeinAZ, thanks again. And I will be ordering a IWB holster for my compact glock since this would avoid any situations like this. Although if for some reason they do see what I am carrying then I would have to abide by their request and leave it in the car.

I also like your suggestion of taking the gun apart so that a thief could only steal random pieces of it, I will keep that in mind next time I am in a similar situation.

Thanks again for the information!

Be careful. Carrying a firearm back into the mall, whether it's concealed, IWB or OC, now that you have been advised that firearms are not allowed may subject you to being formally trespassed if the mall security guards recognize that they had warned you in the past. Better that you spend your money at stores that recognize your 2nd Amendment rights.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Be careful. Carrying a firearm back into the mall, whether it's concealed, IWB or OC, now that you have been advised that firearms are not allowed may subject you to being formally trespassed if ....

What are you calling "formally trespassed?"
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
.....

I have long advocated for a sticky in the AZ forum citing links to AZ fireams laws. To date no reply from the owners of this site? Hopefully in the future we'll get one. It would help others avoid the situation you found yourself in.

Excuse me for butting in, but I happened on this thread and your post while browsing.

I'm curious - have you already created a thread with the links and then contacted either a moderator or one of the administrators with a requesst for it to be made a stickie? I ask because as far as I can tell the Arizona sub-forum has a grand total of ZERO stickies. It seems strange that after 50+ pages not one of the threads was considered by at least one person worth asking someone to make it a stickie, and the mods/administrator felt none of the requests were "worthy", while other states have almost their full first page filled with stickies.

In case you missed the subtle hint, I'll come right out and say it - you start the thread with a post filled with links and other info and then ask for it to be made into a stickie. It will not magically appear because you want one.

stay safe.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Skidmark - PM sent. Thanks for your post.

::headbang:: ::facepalm:: ::headbang:: ::facepalm:: - lather, rinse, repeat.

I suppose I should say something like "Glad to have helped" but the above seems so much more appropriate.

stay safe.
 

jmonday7814

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Southern Arizona
thanks to everyone for chiming in on this and offering solid opinions on how to handle this situation. I like the idea of discontinuing my business at stores which forbid firearms. I've never considered that option since this is the first time I have encountered a problem. Considering the multitude of places that a "bad situation" could occur, and by that I mean ANYWHERE!, I want to make sure that I am always close to my firearm (preferably on my person) if I need it. To me, carrying a firearm is like carrying my wallet....I won't necessarily need it today but I have it just in case I do.

my personal experience carrying open:
movie theater - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed

bank - Bank of America - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed
- credit union - signs posted - cannot carry open but I have carried concealed (which is legal right?)

gun stores - obviously this is completely acceptable but lately I have seen signs stating that you cannot handle your firearm while in the store (duh!!, why would someone need this explained to them)

breakfast/lunch restaurants - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed
dinner - much more difficult to find a restaurant which does not serve alcohol to be consumed on the premises....so I've never carried open or concealed in that situation

All other random stores - no other issues

Thanks again for all the advice guys
 

Paver1055

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
46
Location
Az
thanks to everyone for chiming in on this and offering solid opinions on how to handle this situation. I like the idea of discontinuing my business at stores which forbid firearms. I've never considered that option since this is the first time I have encountered a problem. Considering the multitude of places that a "bad situation" could occur, and by that I mean ANYWHERE!, I want to make sure that I am always close to my firearm (preferably on my person) if I need it. To me, carrying a firearm is like carrying my wallet....I won't necessarily need it today but I have it just in case I do.

my personal experience carrying open:
movie theater - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed

bank - Bank of America - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed
- credit union - signs posted - cannot carry open but I have carried concealed (which is legal right?)

gun stores - obviously this is completely acceptable but lately I have seen signs stating that you cannot handle your firearm while in the store (duh!!, why would someone need this explained to them)

breakfast/lunch restaurants - no signs posted / no issue carrying open or concealed
dinner - much more difficult to find a restaurant which does not serve alcohol to be consumed on the premises....so I've never carried open or concealed in that situation

All other random stores - no other issues

Thanks again for all the advice guys

My credit union had removed there signs for 6 mo or so then placed them back up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
Detained by mall security who call the local police and advise that you are no longer welcome on mall property. Local police will make note that you have been formally notified that you may not return and if you do, you may be charged with criminal trespass.

After advising someone to leave and then preventing them from leaving would be unlawful. :banghead:
 
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