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Thread: Headed to Grand Canyon today.

  1. #1
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Headed to Grand Canyon today.

    Anything I should be aware of for carry around the Grand Canyon? I know here in AZ, I can conceal without a permission slip and plan too, my wife isn't comfortable with me OC'ing while on vacation in unfamiliar areas where we don't know how law enforcement acts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
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  2. #2
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Many of the buildings at the Grand Canyon are federal, you can't bring a firearm inside.
    Aside from that, you shouldn't have any problems carrying anywhere else in the park.

    I've carried there several times, including trips to Phantom Ranch and back without any issues.

    Are you going below the rim, or just enjoying the views from the top?
    If you are going to hike into the canyon, I would suggest the South Kaibab trail, the views are much better than the Bright Angel trail.
    A hike to Skeleton Point is a good day hike, pack a picnic lunch and enjoy the amazing scenery, you can see the Colorado River from there.

    Skeleton Point Pictures

    Take lots of water and remember, it takes twice as much time to go up!

    Enjoy your visit!

    -MH

    p.s. If you hike the trails, watch out for Mule Pools!
    Last edited by March Hare; 09-11-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Don't plan on any hikes.

    Thanks for the reminder of Fed buildings. Wife and I will keep that in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Don't plan on wearing it on one the trams. been there done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottyz View Post
    Don't plan on wearing it on one the trams. been there done that.
    ? Why not? Perfectly legal, and I can speak from experience that it was no issue even just a few short months after the laws changed to make it possible. Open-carried from my vehicle parked outside the general store in GCV, took the shuttle to a trailhead, hiked down Grandview, visited the caves, the spring, camped, came back up, bus to vehicle, no issues. Similarly uneventful when I hiked Kaibab to Phantom and came backup over the next two days via bright angel/indian gardens.

    The only two times anyone even mentioned the gun I was wearing were heading down via Kaibab when someone asked me if I was a ranger, and when getting water at the spring during the Grandview trip when some foreigners seemed a bit surprised. Still pretty uneventful though =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    ? Why not? Perfectly legal, and I can speak from experience that it was no issue even just a few short months after the laws changed to make it possible. Open-carried from my vehicle parked outside the general store in GCV, took the shuttle to a trailhead, hiked down Grandview, visited the caves, the spring, camped, came back up, bus to vehicle, no issues. Similarly uneventful when I hiked Kaibab to Phantom and came backup over the next two days via bright angel/indian gardens.

    The only two times anyone even mentioned the gun I was wearing were heading down via Kaibab when someone asked me if I was a ranger, and when getting water at the spring during the Grandview trip when some foreigners seemed a bit surprised. Still pretty uneventful though =)
    Because every tram we got on HAD a no guns sign on/in them.

    http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upl...arks2-2010.pdf

    Is what I assume they used when we where there.

    Guns may not be allowed on shuttle buses,
    ferries or boats within certain national
    parks, depending on the state
    I said NOTHING about from a vehicle or anything else, just trams !!!
    Last edited by Rottyz; 09-11-2013 at 08:46 PM.

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    Call 'em up and say you feel threatened by a guy with a handgun 1000 miles away...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottyz View Post
    Because every tram we got on HAD a no guns sign on/in them.

    http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upl...arks2-2010.pdf

    Is what I assume they used when we where there.
    Must be something they added since (my referenced visits were both very soon after the law took effect, so not much time for them to get all anti-gunny with signs yet.)

    For what it's worth, that document you linked also fails to match the wording of the actual law (as have previous version of that PDF that I've seen.) Specifically with regard to the concept that a CCW permit is required to carry concealed. My google-fi (and time) are limited right now, but the actual federal statute makes no such provision other than to simply mirror the state's laws in which the park (or portion of the park for those crossing state lines) resides.

    In the case of the Grand Canyon, in Arizona, a CCW permit is not required for concealment, thus is not required in the Grand Canyon National Park.

    The shuttle bus portion stating that guns "may not be allowed on shuttle buses, ferries or boats within certain national parks, depending on the state" is of course open ended and varies from place to place. As mentioned above, it's been a little while since I've been up there, but no such signage or prohibition was in place from inception of the new law through to my last visit in April 2010. It'd definitely be a damn shame if that's changed since, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
    Last edited by Thoreau; 09-12-2013 at 03:09 PM.

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    Google-Fu is feeling a bit stronger now...

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...-111publ24.htm

    Scroll down to section 512 for the entirety of the law as was enacted.

    The entire quote of section 512 (below) leaves zero room for any requirement of a CCW permit for concealment in a state that already makes legal such concealment:

    "SEC. 512. <<NOTE: 16 USC 1a-7b.>> PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM
    VIOLENT CRIME.

    (a) Congressional Findings.--Congress finds the following:
    (1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that
    ``the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
    infringed''.
    (2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal
    Regulations, provides that ``except as otherwise provided in
    this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska
    regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a
    weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii)
    Using a weapon, trap or net''.

    [[Page 123 STAT. 1765]]

    (3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations,
    provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the
    United States may not ``possess, use, or transport firearms on
    national wildlife refuges'' of the United States Fish and
    Wildlife Service.
    (4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3)
    prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from
    exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while
    at units of--
    (A) the National Park System; and
    (B) the National Wildlife Refuge System.
    (5) The existence of different laws relating to the
    transportation and possession of firearms at different units of
    the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System
    entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National
    Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.
    (6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations
    relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens
    in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife
    Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009--
    (A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District
    Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary
    injunction with respect to the implementation and
    enforcement of the new regulations; and
    (B) the new regulations--
    (i) are under review by the administration;
    and
    (ii) may be altered.
    (7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to
    ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again
    override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on
    83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000
    acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish
    and Wildlife Service.
    (8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second
    amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park
    System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be
    infringed.

    (b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the
    National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The
    Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation
    that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an
    assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System
    or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--
    (1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from
    possessing the firearm; and
    (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the
    law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System
    or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.
    "
    Last edited by Thoreau; 09-12-2013 at 03:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    Dude I WAS JUST saying what was posted on the trams/shuttle when we went several months ago, I stated what I see

    Would say next time we go I will take a pic, but seen the hole in the ground, don't need to see it again.
    Last edited by Rottyz; 09-12-2013 at 03:54 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottyz View Post
    Dude I WAS JUST saying what was posted on the trams/shuttle when we went several months ago, I stated what I see

    Would say next time we go I will take a pic, but seen the hole in the ground, don't need to see it again.
    Not sure that underlining/shouting is needed. As I scroll up, I find that this is the first reference I can find of you mentioning WHEN you saw any signs. We're all just trying to share information here.

    That said, I'm wondering if there's some sort of misunderstanding here since there's nothing at the Grand Canyon that I'm aware of that would be called a 'tram'. They've got shuttle busses, train tours, and donkeys.

    Taking a leap here, but if you're referring to the train (which I seem to recall loops from that little town just south of the actual park) that thing is privately operated (Xanterra) and has nothing to do with the laws covering firearms in national parks. It would however, if posted, fall under typical AZ property rights/trespass law.
    Last edited by Thoreau; 09-12-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    Not sure that underlining/shouting is needed. As I scroll up, I find that this is the first reference I can find of you mentioning WHEN you saw any signs. We're all just trying to share information here.

    That said, I'm wondering if there's some sort of misunderstanding here since there's nothing at the Grand Canyon that I'm aware of that would be called a 'tram'. They've got shuttle busses, train tours, and donkeys.

    Taking a leap here, but if you're referring to the train (which I seem to recall loops from that little town just south of the actual park) that thing is privately operated (Xanterra) and has nothing to do with the laws covering firearms in national parks. It would however, if posted, fall under typical AZ property rights/trespass law.
    Wasnt yelliing. would have been bold if I was, sry if you though it was, tram/shutle around park same thing, tomato tomahto same thing. Sry I even posted.

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