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Denied CPL in wayne county

Sunnyday1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Michigan
Hello All,

I have a question for michigan residents with CPL's preferrably in wayne or Oakland county.
I applied for my CPL 4 weeks ago. Today I received a letter from the wayne county clerk saying my
application was denied and I could appear before the gun board with court documentation for review.
Ok so here's my back story 8 yrs and 6 months ago I received a DWLS 2nd offense ticket. It was adjudicated 2 months later. I was never arrested. I paid the fees, and have not been in trouble since. It was a dumb youthful mistake. On Aug 14th of this year, I applied for my CPL. Per the CPL requirements in michigan it has been over 8 yrs, so I should have been good to go, but I guess not. I don't understand why I was denied? I went today to pick up my clearance and court docs showing the case was closed, an it has been closed over 8yrs ago, for the gun board hearing. Is there anything else that I would need to take the meeting? Am I wasting my time fighting this? Any help or insight that anyone has would be helpful.
Thanks,:confused:
 

casper

Guest
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
266
Location
Holland, MI.
Take a lawyer with you. The police will find any excuse to deny a person. You have to force them to comply with the law.
 

Sunnyday1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Michigan
Thanks Casper, I was really hoping it would not come to that. But I fear that you maybe right, it might be time to retain an attorney.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I agree with the friendly ghost...lawyer up. If Saul Goodman practiced law in Michigan I'd probably go with him, but since he doesn't I'd recommend finding an attorney who specializes in firearm laws in Michigan.
 

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
Why did you not attend your gun board meeting? If you have priors I'd have been there for sure. You should be able to FOIA the gun board meeting minutes. You're at a point now where you need to know what specific reasons you were denied with the details of their conversation about you and setup an appeal with an attorney.

I'm confused by your post. You stated you needed to get court docs for the gun board hearing. That seems like you did attend? What exactly was talked about and their statements for denying you??
Mike
 
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DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Why did you not attend your gun board meeting? If you have priors I'd have been there for sure. You should be able to FOIA the gun board meeting minutes. You're at a point now where you need to know what specific reasons you were denied with the details of their conversation about you and setup an appeal with an attorney.

I'm confused by your post. You stated you needed to get court docs for the gun board hearing. That seems like you did attend? What exactly was talked about and their statements for denying you??
Mike

This!
 

Sunnyday1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Michigan

Why did you not attend your gun board meeting? If you have priors I'd have been there for sure. You should be able to FOIA the gun board meeting minutes. You're at a point now where you need to know what specific reasons you were denied with the details of their conversation about you and setup an appeal with an attorney.

I'm confused by your post. You stated you needed to get court docs for the gun board hearing. That seems like you did attend? What exactly was talked about and their statements for denying you??
Mike

Mike, I have not attended the gun board meeting. It is not scheduled until later this month. I do plan on attending. The court docs that I picked up are from the DWLS 2nd offense charge that is over 8 yrs old. Per the denial the paper stated it that I need to bring official court paperwork/ docs regarding the disposition of DWLS 2nd offense charge to the board meeting.
 

bb

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Mar 19, 2007
Messages
149
Location
, ,
Attorney

Mike, I have not attended the gun board meeting. It is not scheduled until later this month. I do plan on attending. The court docs that I picked up are from the DWLS 2nd offense charge that is over 8 yrs old. Per the denial the paper stated it that I need to bring official court paperwork/ docs regarding the disposition of DWLS 2nd offense charge to the board meeting.

Try Nancy Moore in Livonia, I used her 8 years ago when i was denied, filed appeal meet at gun board meeting no waiting in line if u have counsel. approved
 

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
Mike, I have not attended the gun board meeting. It is not scheduled until later this month. I do plan on attending. The court docs that I picked up are from the DWLS 2nd offense charge that is over 8 yrs old. Per the denial the paper stated it that I need to bring official court paperwork/ docs regarding the disposition of DWLS 2nd offense charge to the board meeting.

I suspect mikestilly and Dr. Todd meant 'why didn't you attend the original hearing'.

Given the nature of Wayne County, I also suspect you may not have known you could, or when it was.

Am I bridging the gap correctly?
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
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Secret Bunker
I suspect mikestilly and Dr. Todd meant 'why didn't you attend the original hearing'.

Given the nature of Wayne County, I also suspect you may not have known you could, or when it was.

Am I bridging the gap correctly?

Wayne Co. Or WaCo - is well known for mailing notices at the very last minute. Often the person may only get it within a day or two of the meeting date. They are also famous for putting the wrong room # or even floor #'s on notices. WaCo. discourages the public from attending, telling people, if they did not receive a notice they cannot attend. They know they are wrong, they just don't care about what the law says. You are dealing not only with the crooked board, but the several layers of inept, know nothing clerks, all doing the turtle shuffle and getting paid to make sure your experience is a poor one. They are EXPERTS only at that.
WaCo has many policies that they try to pass off as "law" to the uneducated public. The Wayne County Gun Board is one of the most anti IMHO. They are often forced to comply by a court order to issues permits. Look at it this way - shady people, so expect shady practices and lots of petty games on their part.

A snakes den for sure, IMHO.

ETA- Hopefully one day MI will change to a centralized CPL system where the state police issue permits. Not perfect, but far less chance of some local GB with a agenda screwing with people.

Compared to the staff @ WaCo this guy is a world class sprinter. :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5BMVmOWzfk
 
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Sunnyday1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Michigan
That's correct Evil Creamsickle
I didn't know when the original board meeting was scheduled' or that I needed to attend.
 

Scooter123

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
63
Location
Macomb, Michigan, USA
Something you need to understand is that the CPL process is geared towards weeding out people who act in irresponsible ways. One of the methods used to accomplish this is to look at the Driving record of an applicant because irresponsible behavior routinely shows up on ones driving record. In addition it actually takes a bit of effort to earn a 2nd offense for Driving with License Suspended. To get there you had to have a history of driving offenses that led to your suspended license and to get busted for driving on a suspended license you had to have committed another driving offense in order to be stopped. To be blunt, a bit more that 8 years ago you were a real idiot with a miserable record and as a result your past history is a strike against you. Enough so that the Gun Board has made the decision to call you in to explain your past behavior and provide evidence that you have reformed your ways.

Some good news is that I don't think you need a lawyer if you have truly mended your ways. However, the bad news is that you will have to show that you have been a very responsible driver since that last infraction and that more than 8 years have elapsed. BTW, if you have 4 or more points on your current license I would expect that you'll be denied a CPL based on a combination of past offenses and a current history of a less than ideal driving record. In this particular case a Lawyer might be able to weasle you a permit but it will probably be costly. If you have zero points on your driving record with no infractions since that DWLS I would expect that you'll be granted a permit once you've provided documentation of that.
 

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
Something you need to understand is that the CPL process is geared towards weeding out people who act in irresponsible ways. One of the methods used to accomplish this is to look at the Driving record of an applicant because irresponsible behavior routinely shows up on ones driving record. In addition it actually takes a bit of effort to earn a 2nd offense for Driving with License Suspended. To get there you had to have a history of driving offenses that led to your suspended license and to get busted for driving on a suspended license you had to have committed another driving offense in order to be stopped. To be blunt, a bit more that 8 years ago you were a real idiot with a miserable record and as a result your past history is a strike against you. Enough so that the Gun Board has made the decision to call you in to explain your past behavior and provide evidence that you have reformed your ways.

Some good news is that I don't think you need a lawyer if you have truly mended your ways. However, the bad news is that you will have to show that you have been a very responsible driver since that last infraction and that more than 8 years have elapsed. BTW, if you have 4 or more points on your current license I would expect that you'll be denied a CPL based on a combination of past offenses and a current history of a less than ideal driving record. In this particular case a Lawyer might be able to weasle you a permit but it will probably be costly. If you have zero points on your driving record with no infractions since that DWLS I would expect that you'll be granted a permit once you've provided documentation of that.

+1 Totally agree with this post. I would NOT support a CPL for a person with a second DWLS unless they could clearly demonstrate they have cleaned up their ways.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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2,508
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Secret Bunker
Now, now.

Is this a issue? Sure, the OP made mistakes. He could of OC'd without a cpl - so atleast he didn't lose all his rights to defense. That permission slip sure makes it a heck of a lot easier though and safer in my opinion. Less load/unloading going on in public places. MI laws sometimes don't factor public safety into the mix enough IMHO.. :(

Constitutional Carry would eliminate a lot of the issues in MI, if the legislators could ever find a will/ way to pass it.
 
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Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
still not seeing how that should effect his RIGHT to keep and bear arms? The whole CPL thing is a joke to me, "here, we give you permission to exercise your RIGHT to keep and bear arms."

+1.

Having a history of making poor driving decisions can be, and was, punished with a revocation of the PRIVILEGE of being able to drive.
If someone has a history of perjury, should they be denied their right to free speech?
If someone has a history of gang-fighting should they be denied their right to peaceably assemble?
Should a former soldier convicted of desertion be forced to quarter soldiers in their home?
Should an epileptic be denied their freedom from unreasonable siezure?

OK the last one was a joke but, I think you get my point.

ETA: My examples were even more related than the actual situation. I suppose a more realistic idiocy would be having two offenses for operating a fork-lift without a certification and losing your right to free speech because of it.
 
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