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Thread: I Do Believe My Company's Weapons Policy Violates State Law

  1. #1
    Regular Member KySIGGuy's Avatar
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    I Do Believe My Company's Weapons Policy Violates State Law

    I was looking over my employers policy on weapons and I actually believe that it violates 237.106, but I'm not 100% sure. Makes me leary about keeping my pistol in my glovebox while at work. Posted below is the policy:

    A. [Employer Name Redacted] prohibits the possession, transfer, sale, use, or threat of use of weapons of any type
    on company property, while performing services for the company or at company sponsored events.
    Company property includes but is not limited to:
    a. company offices and desks
    b. all work locations
    c. company provided or designated parking areas
    d. lockers
    e. any vehicle engaged in company operations
    f. any personal belongings on, or in, any of the above.

    B. Weapons includes both visible and concealed, and includes those for which the individual has the
    necessary permit. While this list is not all-inclusive, weapons includes firearms, knives, explosive
    materials or any other object(s) that can be used to inflict injury or intimidate others. The company has the
    absolute discretion to determine what is, or is not, a weapon.

    C. Authorized persons, such as sworn law enforcement officers, are permitted to possess weapons while
    conducting official business while on company property.

    D. [Employer Name Redacted] reserves the right to search the person, personal effects, locker(s), or other personal
    property as deemed appropriate by the company to enforce the policy.

    E. Team members are required to report all incidents of violence, threats of violence, possession or use
    of a weapon, firearm or other destructive device as described in Section A of this policy. A team member
    who observes any violence or anyone in the possession of any type of weapon, firearm or other
    destructive device or is aware of a threat of violence or use of a weapon, firearm or other destructive
    device is required to report it to his/her supervisor immediately. Failure to do so may result in a corrective
    counseling action.

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    237.106b
    b
    b
    Right of employees and other persons to possess firearms in vehicle
    -- Employer liable for denying right -- Exceptions.
    (1)
    (2)
    (3)
    (4)
    (5)
    No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee,
    or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to
    possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or
    ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
    A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or
    otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by
    state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing
    a firearm or ammunition on the property.
    A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of
    self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the
    owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
    An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an
    employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section and who
    is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil
    damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction
    against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is
    found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property:
    (a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government, upon
    which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled;
    (b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or
    (c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits
    possession or carrying of firearms on the property.
    Effective:July 12, 2006
    History: Created 2006 Ky. Acts ch.b
    240, sec.b
    8, effective July 12, 2006.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KySIGGuy View Post
    I was looking over my employers policy on weapons and I actually believe that it violates 237.106, but I'm not 100% sure. Makes me leary about keeping my pistol in my glovebox while at work. Posted below is the policy:

    A. [Employer Name Redacted] prohibits the possession, transfer, sale, use, or threat of use of weapons of any type
    on company property, while performing services for the company or at company sponsored events.
    Company property includes but is not limited to:
    a. company offices and desks
    b. all work locations
    c. company provided or designated parking areas
    d. lockers
    e. any vehicle engaged in company operations
    f. any personal belongings on, or in, any of the above.

    B. Weapons includes both visible and concealed, and includes those for which the individual has the
    necessary permit. While this list is not all-inclusive, weapons includes firearms, knives, explosive
    materials or any other object(s) that can be used to inflict injury or intimidate others. The company has the
    absolute discretion to determine what is, or is not, a weapon.

    C. Authorized persons, such as sworn law enforcement officers, are permitted to possess weapons while
    conducting official business while on company property.

    D. [Employer Name Redacted] reserves the right to search the person, personal effects, locker(s), or other personal
    property as deemed appropriate by the company to enforce the policy.

    E. Team members are required to report all incidents of violence, threats of violence, possession or use
    of a weapon, firearm or other destructive device as described in Section A of this policy. A team member
    who observes any violence or anyone in the possession of any type of weapon, firearm or other
    destructive device or is aware of a threat of violence or use of a weapon, firearm or other destructive
    device is required to report it to his/her supervisor immediately. Failure to do so may result in a corrective
    counseling action.
    Aside from having a few grammatical issues, your company seems to have banned pens, cars, and shoes entirely.

    How do you guys get anything done?

  4. #4
    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    I had my employer change company rules

    My employer also had no weapons including firearms on company property, until i brought state law to the attention of human resources manager. now the rules state in company buildings.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

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    Regular Member KySIGGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Aside from having a few grammatical issues, your company seems to have banned pens, cars, and shoes entirely.

    How do you guys get anything done?
    Some days I have no idea.

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    When I worked for a company that developed chemical weapons, they had no weapon policies....go figure
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-12-2013 at 09:37 PM.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    The rule is worded in a way that it can be completely within the law.

    It does not state specifically that you cannot have a firearm within your vehicle.

    You can approach them about this subject, but I don't think you'll get much done. I advised Drake to once, and it didn't turn out well. Until it is actually used in violation of state law there isn't much that can be done.

    Educate people about the law if, let them know that this rule has its limitations.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    The rule is worded in a way that it can be completely within the law.

    It does not state specifically that you cannot have a firearm within your vehicle.

    You can approach them about this subject, but I don't think you'll get much done. I advised Drake to once, and it didn't turn out well. Until it is actually used in violation of state law there isn't much that can be done.

    Educate people about the law if, let them know that this rule has its limitations.
    This is company policy .. they can read it how they want ... he's an at-will employee anywho ... they'll say they fired him for wearing black socks

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    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    I Do Believe My Company's Weapons Policy Violates State Law

    I would think part " f " could be a violation. The way I read it that part would Include all personal belongings in their parking lot. Your car is a personal belonging and is in there "parking area " assuming you park your personal car in there parking lot. Maybe an anonymous letter to personnel would be appropriate if you fear they may look unfavorably on you for bringing it to their attention.

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    You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

    What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

    Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, and if they do eventually learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 09-14-2013 at 07:42 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so.
    Unless the OP has already granted that right to the employer by agreeing to a policy that specifies it, of course.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

    What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

    Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, if they do every learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.
    This, mostly. Even an anonymous letter may give management the impetus to do something, including searching everyone's vehicle to find the person who cares. As mentioned, they don't have to insist. They have the right to fire anyone for any reason, and whether you think it was for being suspected of violating the firearm policy or the subject-to-search policy or for "no reason," it doesn't really matter.

    That said, is it against the law to carry on your person at work, or just against policy? If the latter, like in my state, as long as you are going to violate a policy, you might as well stay armed, albeit highly discreetly.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-13-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    That said, is it against the law to carry on your person at work, or just against policy? If the latter, like in my state, as long as you are going to violate a policy, you might as well stay armed, albeit highly discreetly.
    It is not against the law to carry in a person's place of work unless it is a place where firearms are prohibited by law, such as a court room, or military base.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    paycheck.....carry.....pay check.....carry.....hmm.....

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    I wouldn't worry about it unless they try to enforce it. Out of sight, out of mind in the vehicle.

    Now if for some reason they try to enforce it and fire you, then lawyer up.

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    Regular Member KySIGGuy's Avatar
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    Hey peeps. I have no intention of bringing this to their attention. I've already seen one employee (albeit a temp) get booted out for bringing her handgun into work in her purse and then trying to argue that her CCDW permit allows her to do so. Nobody here knows that my SIG is in the glovebox and nobody will. In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    I used to work for a non-profit some years ago and they had an equally asinine weapon's policy. They found out that I DID CARRY a sidearm one day and by the next morning I had a post-it note on my monitor requesting my presence in the HR Manager's office before I hit that road to do my usual "Tech Support" in the field.

    The HR Manager was a really great guy and was one of those rare few that you could really just sit down and talk openly with, a rarity! So, he brought it to my attention, which they hadn't previously, that they had a policy of no weapon's in vehicles. It is at this point that I should point out that with this non-profit organization did not furnish "company vehicles" we had to drive our own and we were reimbursed VERY NICELY for that! *LOL*

    Once the HR Manager told me all this and showed it to me in their policy, I politely asked to be excused for a moment and when I came back, I shown him the KRS that allowed for the carry on a sidearm in personal vehicle's that are not company owned! At that point he reached for the copy I had to read the WHOLE thing himself and he asked me to get back with him tomorrow morning as soon as I got into work. I told him that would be fine and I hit the road to do my job.

    The next morning I was at his office door promptly at 7:45 and was awaiting his arrival at 7:50. He asked me to step in and have a seat. which I did. It was at this point that he had a seat and took a drink of coffee and cleared his throat and I was expecting him to lecture me about "company policy" but to my surprise he looked me in the eye and said, "It seems that you are correct"! He had apparently contacted their attorney to verify the paperwork I had given him the day prior. In a round about way, he told me that I was legal (something I already knew) and that being that that was the law in Kentucky that he couldn't say anything about but that THEY'D really appreciate it if I wouldn't mention it to anyone else.

    There's a bit more to the story but that was the main point and that was the end of this issue for me. My employment wasn't terminated but then again, they had a hard enough time trying to locate the type of technician that they were looking for in the first place.

    I really loved that place, sadly after the American Red Cross Scandal after 9/11, they job ended when the whole in-house department was dismantled but it was a hell of a run while it lasted.
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KySIGGuy View Post
    In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.
    Glad to hear that - you might be surprised at how many people sign such agreements without understanding them (or even reading them sometimes).
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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

    What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

    Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, if they do every learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.

    not a true statement in every situation, i am a union worker ( now not before ) and where i work it is a long drawn out process to terminate even the worst of employees without tons of documentation. I know this because i was a plant supervisor for 18 years with this same company. I resigned as management in February and went to a plant worker, 90 days later i was in the union. i'm not a huge union fan but it does make it harder for a company to just fire you without proof of some wrong doing.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KySIGGuy View Post
    Hey peeps. I have no intention of bringing this to their attention. I've already seen one employee (albeit a temp) get booted out for bringing her handgun into work in her purse and then trying to argue that her CCDW permit allows her to do so. Nobody here knows that my SIG is in the glovebox and nobody will. In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.
    You may not have signed off on a specific permission to search document, but have you signed off on this policy or general policies? If so you may have given up your right to file civilly. I would contact an attorney who is familiar with these kinds of rules and find out if this is so and also how you can safely (note I didn't say legally) store your belongings in your vehicle - does the employer have the right to cut open a car safe, or to destroy your glove box and can you prevent them from doing so on the spot? If they can't destroy a safe to check it, then you are fairly safe just don't let anyone see you re-arming in your car.

    I agree I would not disclose you are carrying, but it would make me think twice about using my firearm anywhere near your workplace (in self-defense - if you're in your car, just drive away or run the attacker over). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they'd fire you if they discovered you had a firearm at home or used a gun range, given the draconian nature (we have the right to search people and possessions) of the policy.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-13-2013 at 08:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRM59 View Post
    not a true statement in every situation, i am a union worker ( now not before ) and where i work it is a long drawn out process to terminate even the worst of employees without tons of documentation. I know this because i was a plant supervisor for 18 years with this same company. I resigned as management in February and went to a plant worker, 90 days later i was in the union. i'm not a huge union fan but it does make it harder for a company to just fire you without proof of some wrong doing.
    I have no care for unions. They were useful at one time but now they are nothing but thugs, and have been for decades. Just look to "Bloody Harlan" and you will see what a union is all about.

    Even if you belong to a union, you can still be fired for violating your employer's policies. It MAY be a little different, but you can certainly still get the boot.

    ------

    As for signing "contracts" that give an employer the "right" to search your vehicle, well this is not true. Regardless of what you may sign or have signed, an employer will NEVER have the RIGHT to search your vehicle. Your vehicle is your private property, not theirs. They MAY be able to terminate you for refusing to allow them to search your vehicle, but they do NOT have a RIGHT to search it.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member Comm's Avatar
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    Sadly I think I was let go from U.K. because of this. I have always carried in my vehicle locked up even before the Mitchel case was known. Once it hit the airwaves, I remember several people talking about this saying it was "Good" that U.K. did that. I tried to keep my mouth shut about the whole thing and listen, but one day it hit a nerve when a co-worker said she thought all guns should be banned!

    From that moment on, I was "black flagged" and even though no one knew I was licensed and carried, it seems like more people "kept" their distance from me. I was also a very vocal in saying my mind about Obama and his policies. I thought freedom of speech was alive and well, but then I found out U.K. is a very Democratic University. I had posted several links about Obama and his polices on gun issues, and it was January this year, when I was called into my Director office, and he told me my position was "eliminated". They gave me 3 months severance package, and said they would do everything they could to help me find another job. (Still waiting)

    So I have to agree with Glockster, and keep your mouth shut, and watch what you say in Facebook (If you post anything) because employers like to look at employees post.

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