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I Do Believe My Company's Weapons Policy Violates State Law

KySIGGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
49
Location
Louisville, KY
I was looking over my employers policy on weapons and I actually believe that it violates 237.106, but I'm not 100% sure. Makes me leary about keeping my pistol in my glovebox while at work. Posted below is the policy:

A. [Employer Name Redacted] prohibits the possession, transfer, sale, use, or threat of use of weapons of any type
on company property, while performing services for the company or at company sponsored events.
Company property includes but is not limited to:
a. company offices and desks
b. all work locations
c. company provided or designated parking areas
d. lockers
e. any vehicle engaged in company operations
f. any personal belongings on, or in, any of the above.

B. Weapons includes both visible and concealed, and includes those for which the individual has the
necessary permit. While this list is not all-inclusive, weapons includes firearms, knives, explosive
materials or any other object(s) that can be used to inflict injury or intimidate others. The company has the
absolute discretion to determine what is, or is not, a weapon.

C. Authorized persons, such as sworn law enforcement officers, are permitted to possess weapons while
conducting official business while on company property.

D. [Employer Name Redacted] reserves the right to search the person, personal effects, locker(s), or other personal
property as deemed appropriate by the company to enforce the policy.

E. Team members are required to report all incidents of violence, threats of violence, possession or use
of a weapon, firearm or other destructive device as described in Section A of this policy. A team member
who observes any violence or anyone in the possession of any type of weapon, firearm or other
destructive device or is aware of a threat of violence or use of a weapon, firearm or other destructive
device is required to report it to his/her supervisor immediately. Failure to do so may result in a corrective
counseling action.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I was looking over my employers policy on weapons and I actually believe that it violates 237.106, but I'm not 100% sure. Makes me leary about keeping my pistol in my glovebox while at work. Posted below is the policy:

A. [Employer Name Redacted] prohibits the possession, transfer, sale, use, or threat of use of weapons of any type
on company property, while performing services for the company or at company sponsored events.
Company property includes but is not limited to:
a. company offices and desks
b. all work locations
c. company provided or designated parking areas
d. lockers
e. any vehicle engaged in company operations
f. any personal belongings on, or in, any of the above.

B. Weapons includes both visible and concealed, and includes those for which the individual has the
necessary permit. While this list is not all-inclusive, weapons includes firearms, knives, explosive
materials or any other object(s) that can be used to inflict injury or intimidate others. The company has the
absolute discretion to determine what is, or is not, a weapon.

C. Authorized persons, such as sworn law enforcement officers, are permitted to possess weapons while
conducting official business while on company property.

D. [Employer Name Redacted] reserves the right to search the person, personal effects, locker(s), or other personal
property as deemed appropriate by the company to enforce the policy.

E. Team members are required to report all incidents of violence, threats of violence, possession or use
of a weapon, firearm or other destructive device as described in Section A of this policy. A team member
who observes any violence or anyone in the possession of any type of weapon, firearm or other
destructive device or is aware of a threat of violence or use of a weapon, firearm or other destructive
device is required to report it to his/her supervisor immediately. Failure to do so may result in a corrective
counseling action.

Aside from having a few grammatical issues, your company seems to have banned pens, cars, and shoes entirely.

How do you guys get anything done?
 

KRM59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
256
Location
louisville, Kentucky
I had my employer change company rules

My employer also had no weapons including firearms on company property, until i brought state law to the attention of human resources manager. now the rules state in company buildings.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
When I worked for a company that developed chemical weapons, they had no weapon policies....go figure
 
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09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
The rule is worded in a way that it can be completely within the law.

It does not state specifically that you cannot have a firearm within your vehicle.

You can approach them about this subject, but I don't think you'll get much done. I advised Drake to once, and it didn't turn out well. Until it is actually used in violation of state law there isn't much that can be done.

Educate people about the law if, let them know that this rule has its limitations.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
The rule is worded in a way that it can be completely within the law.

It does not state specifically that you cannot have a firearm within your vehicle.

You can approach them about this subject, but I don't think you'll get much done. I advised Drake to once, and it didn't turn out well. Until it is actually used in violation of state law there isn't much that can be done.

Educate people about the law if, let them know that this rule has its limitations.

This is company policy .. they can read it how they want ... he's an at-will employee anywho ... they'll say they fired him for wearing black socks
 

mellio

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
101
Location
Central, Kentucky, USA
I would think part " f " could be a violation. The way I read it that part would Include all personal belongings in their parking lot. Your car is a personal belonging and is in there "parking area " assuming you park your personal car in there parking lot. Maybe an anonymous letter to personnel would be appropriate if you fear they may look unfavorably on you for bringing it to their attention.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, and if they do eventually learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.
 
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JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so.
Unless the OP has already granted that right to the employer by agreeing to a policy that specifies it, of course.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, if they do every learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.

This, mostly. Even an anonymous letter may give management the impetus to do something, including searching everyone's vehicle to find the person who cares. As mentioned, they don't have to insist. They have the right to fire anyone for any reason, and whether you think it was for being suspected of violating the firearm policy or the subject-to-search policy or for "no reason," it doesn't really matter.

That said, is it against the law to carry on your person at work, or just against policy? If the latter, like in my state, as long as you are going to violate a policy, you might as well stay armed, albeit highly discreetly.
 
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09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
That said, is it against the law to carry on your person at work, or just against policy? If the latter, like in my state, as long as you are going to violate a policy, you might as well stay armed, albeit highly discreetly.

It is not against the law to carry in a person's place of work unless it is a place where firearms are prohibited by law, such as a court room, or military base.
 

flb_78

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
544
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
I wouldn't worry about it unless they try to enforce it. Out of sight, out of mind in the vehicle.

Now if for some reason they try to enforce it and fire you, then lawyer up.
 

KySIGGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
49
Location
Louisville, KY
Hey peeps. I have no intention of bringing this to their attention. I've already seen one employee (albeit a temp) get booted out for bringing her handgun into work in her purse and then trying to argue that her CCDW permit allows her to do so. Nobody here knows that my SIG is in the glovebox and nobody will. In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.
 

neuroblades

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
1,240
Location
, Kentucky, USA
I used to work for a non-profit some years ago and they had an equally asinine weapon's policy. They found out that I DID CARRY a sidearm one day and by the next morning I had a post-it note on my monitor requesting my presence in the HR Manager's office before I hit that road to do my usual "Tech Support" in the field.

The HR Manager was a really great guy and was one of those rare few that you could really just sit down and talk openly with, a rarity! So, he brought it to my attention, which they hadn't previously, that they had a policy of no weapon's in vehicles. It is at this point that I should point out that with this non-profit organization did not furnish "company vehicles" we had to drive our own and we were reimbursed VERY NICELY for that! *LOL*

Once the HR Manager told me all this and showed it to me in their policy, I politely asked to be excused for a moment and when I came back, I shown him the KRS that allowed for the carry on a sidearm in personal vehicle's that are not company owned! At that point he reached for the copy I had to read the WHOLE thing himself and he asked me to get back with him tomorrow morning as soon as I got into work. I told him that would be fine and I hit the road to do my job.

The next morning I was at his office door promptly at 7:45 and was awaiting his arrival at 7:50. He asked me to step in and have a seat. which I did. It was at this point that he had a seat and took a drink of coffee and cleared his throat and I was expecting him to lecture me about "company policy" but to my surprise he looked me in the eye and said, "It seems that you are correct"! He had apparently contacted their attorney to verify the paperwork I had given him the day prior. In a round about way, he told me that I was legal (something I already knew) and that being that that was the law in Kentucky that he couldn't say anything about but that THEY'D really appreciate it if I wouldn't mention it to anyone else.

There's a bit more to the story but that was the main point and that was the end of this issue for me. My employment wasn't terminated but then again, they had a hard enough time trying to locate the type of technician that they were looking for in the first place.

I really loved that place, sadly after the American Red Cross Scandal after 9/11, they job ended when the whole in-house department was dismantled but it was a hell of a run while it lasted.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.

Glad to hear that - you might be surprised at how many people sign such agreements without understanding them (or even reading them sometimes).
 

KRM59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
256
Location
louisville, Kentucky
You do not want to be the one that brings this to their attention. If you do anything, send a confidential letter with the KRS to whoever it needs to be sent to, but do not let them know you are the one who is sending it. If you bring this to their attention then they will automatically assume you are already carrying.

What you need to do is keep it concealed in your locked vehicle while at work. Your employer has no right to search your vehicle and you would be insane to allow them to search your vehicle if they requested to do so. Bringing this to their attention will only make you a target. In Kentucky they can fire you for anything, and you don't want to give them a reason to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't say anything to them. If they become aware of the law and then somehow realize someone is carrying in their vehicle in accordance with said law, they will fire them for that very reason but they will say it was for something else because they will then know about the law. I would keep it quiet, keep your firearm concealed, and if someone ever gets fired for lawfully carrying in their vehicle you can then pursue legal recourse. Again, if you bring this to their attention now, if they do every learn you or someone else is carrying they will simply terminate you for a different reason. REMEMBER, they do not NEED a reason to terminate in Kentucky.


not a true statement in every situation, i am a union worker ( now not before ) and where i work it is a long drawn out process to terminate even the worst of employees without tons of documentation. I know this because i was a plant supervisor for 18 years with this same company. I resigned as management in February and went to a plant worker, 90 days later i was in the union. i'm not a huge union fan but it does make it harder for a company to just fire you without proof of some wrong doing.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Hey peeps. I have no intention of bringing this to their attention. I've already seen one employee (albeit a temp) get booted out for bringing her handgun into work in her purse and then trying to argue that her CCDW permit allows her to do so. Nobody here knows that my SIG is in the glovebox and nobody will. In regards to one comment, I have never signed, nor been asked to sign any form of documentation that grants my employer the right to search my vehicle for any reason.

You may not have signed off on a specific permission to search document, but have you signed off on this policy or general policies? If so you may have given up your right to file civilly. I would contact an attorney who is familiar with these kinds of rules and find out if this is so and also how you can safely (note I didn't say legally) store your belongings in your vehicle - does the employer have the right to cut open a car safe, or to destroy your glove box and can you prevent them from doing so on the spot? If they can't destroy a safe to check it, then you are fairly safe just don't let anyone see you re-arming in your car.

I agree I would not disclose you are carrying, but it would make me think twice about using my firearm anywhere near your workplace (in self-defense - if you're in your car, just drive away or run the attacker over). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they'd fire you if they discovered you had a firearm at home or used a gun range, given the draconian nature (we have the right to search people and possessions) of the policy.

Good luck!
 
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KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
not a true statement in every situation, i am a union worker ( now not before ) and where i work it is a long drawn out process to terminate even the worst of employees without tons of documentation. I know this because i was a plant supervisor for 18 years with this same company. I resigned as management in February and went to a plant worker, 90 days later i was in the union. i'm not a huge union fan but it does make it harder for a company to just fire you without proof of some wrong doing.

I have no care for unions. They were useful at one time but now they are nothing but thugs, and have been for decades. Just look to "Bloody Harlan" and you will see what a union is all about.

Even if you belong to a union, you can still be fired for violating your employer's policies. It MAY be a little different, but you can certainly still get the boot.

------

As for signing "contracts" that give an employer the "right" to search your vehicle, well this is not true. Regardless of what you may sign or have signed, an employer will NEVER have the RIGHT to search your vehicle. Your vehicle is your private property, not theirs. They MAY be able to terminate you for refusing to allow them to search your vehicle, but they do NOT have a RIGHT to search it.
 
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