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Thread: voice recorders

  1. #1
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    voice recorders

    Just got mine. Right now I've decided that I'm going to keep it in my pocket but I doubt it's a good idea to go sticking your hand in your pocket as the cops are showing up. How do y'all wear yours? Also I need some clarification on state laws when it comes to recording devices. Does the person on the other end need to know they're being recorded for it to be legal? If so and if I keep it running from the instant I leave the house as some suggest what about all the other people I come in contact with? Am I supposed to tell everyone I interact with that they are being recorded?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91 whiskey View Post
    Just got mine. Right now I've decided that I'm going to keep it in my pocket but I doubt it's a good idea to go sticking your hand in your pocket as the cops are showing up. How do y'all wear yours? Also I need some clarification on state laws when it comes to recording devices. Does the person on the other end need to know they're being recorded for it to be legal? If so and if I keep it running from the instant I leave the house as some suggest what about all the other people I come in contact with? Am I supposed to tell everyone I interact with that they are being recorded?

    I keep one in my pocket as well, or on a lanyard around my neck.

    In either case, it's just always running. I got a set of rechargeable batteries (Mine runs for about 8 hours on one AAA battery), and start it before walking out the door. If there's audio that needs saving I save it to my computer before wiping it and popping a fresh battery in it once I'm home.

    Insofar as legality: So long as you are a party to the conversation, you may lawfully record without notification. IF YOU ARE NOT A PARTY TO THE CONVERSATION, you only need to notify if the party has a reasonable expectation of privacy from your ears.
    Last edited by zigziggityzoo; 09-13-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    I use a magazine holster because mine fits in it so well and still gets good quality audio. May not be the same for yours.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
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    There doesn't seem to be any way of attaching a lanyard to the one I have which is a Sony bx112.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    I keep mine running from the time I leave the house, until I'm back home. I generally keep in in my shirt pocket, although sometimes it has to be in my pants pocket. I download ALL recordings, regardless of their content. You never know when someone may accuse you of something a day or a week latter.....

    So far, I've never had need of them, but I do have some interesting stuff, like a sherriff deputy explaining to an irate citizen why what I was doing is perfectly legal, and KPD sergeant apologizing for hasseling Steel Magnolia, and admitting that she was 100% legal.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Yes, I have my voice recorder running before I step foot outside my house and I dont turn mine off until I'm home, or if I have disarmed for some reason. Battery life is superb on my Sony ICD-PX312, it runs for roughly 18hrs on rechargeable batteries and for about 42hrs on the standard alkline type.

    As far as legalities go the one thing that I see that hasnt been covered is that you must either stop recording or garner consent to record when and where the person(s) who are being recorded have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" and that means they are on private property in a place where the general public wouldnt normally have access.

    I also carry mine in a magazine pouch and it picks up sounds flawlessly.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    My primary in a situation where I anticipate the possibility of police trouble is always a covert video recorder. My backup in this case, or primary when I don't expect trouble, is a audio recorder held in a pouch on my gun belt.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    My primary in a situation where I anticipate the possibility of police trouble is always a covert video recorder. My backup in this case, or primary when I don't expect trouble, is a audio recorder held in a pouch on my gun belt.
    My primary is a covert video/audio recorder. My back up is another video/audio recorder. My back up for my back up is another covert video/audio recorder...

    And my back up for all of them is yet another covert video/audio recorder..

    And my back up for that is yet another covert video/audio recorder.

    Sometimes my wife carries yet another spare covert video/audio recorder for me.

    Am I paranoid? Or do I have the capability to record video and audio of every moment I am open carrying in public while still prepared for a worst case scenario where covert recorders are needed?

    All I do know is.. I carry a gun to save my life and the lives of my loved ones and I carry recorders to save my, and their, freedom. I have a video/audio recording of every moment I've open carried in public for the past several years saved in a remote location. Paranoid? I think not since I carry a gun in case I need it to save my life so I also carry recorders in case I need them to save my freedom.

    No.. I will NOT reveal what covert recorders I use on an open forum that is monitored by LE agencies from local to Federal. Not that they don't already know what is out there (and some just might use the same units themselves... think about that for a while)... just no point in making it easy.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 09-15-2013 at 06:43 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91 whiskey View Post
    --snip-- Does the person on the other end need to know they're being recorded for it to be legal? If so and if I keep it running from the instant I leave the house as some suggest what about all the other people I come in contact with? Am I supposed to tell everyone I interact with that they are being recorded?
    Not required in your state......or most others.

    http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can...ls-in-my-state
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Am I paranoid? .

    Not a bit. And it can easily be put in perspective with the sweeping catastrophic failure of almost every recorder at one of the most high profile incidents I've ever been involved in, where we had more than 6 people, many carrying multiples, but only got 2 videos, one incomplete, and audio. Chinese junk is junk, and while you are likely alone in having that much footage recorded, it is still an excellent idea.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    And it's also handy that police officers while acting in an official capacity have no expectation of privacy. If they are having a private conversation you are not part of it is still lawful to record them.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 09-15-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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    Comments retracted in light of the court case linked to in the following post.
    Last edited by OC4me; 09-19-2013 at 02:53 PM.

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    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Lapeer uses the same site I'm quite fond of- http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide. It's a great resource.

    I'm fond of the RCA VR-5320. Take two triple A's and has an extendable USB jack so you can plug it in and transfer the files. I found that with practice it's a great little tool to have.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I just use a nylon folding knife sheath I had lying around. It has a snap+velcro so it requires turning the window to the inside away from the snap but it's low profile. I thought about having a kydex sheath made, but I'm not totally sure the recorder could stand the 250-degree heat required to mold the kydex. (And if I had any wood working skill, I'd just carve a blank to the same dimensions and not worry about it.)

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Fallschirmjager, you do understand that the recorder doesn't exactly have to sit in there snug, right? If you want it to by formed to the size & shape of the recorder, get a small piece of wood and cut it down and carve it. Like a 1"x2" or something. You can likely find some scrap somewhere that'd work. Then after carving it, use it for the molding.
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    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Realized, but I prefer to rely on something more substantial than gravity for retention; I want friction and that means molding to shape (or close to it).

    Kydex, while being today's flavor of the week, also has the drawback of being just a little too good. Molded to a firearm it will last a generation, molded to a voice recorder it'll be perfectly molded to outdated technology/no longer produced shape by the end of a decade.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Realized, but I prefer to rely on something more substantial than gravity for retention; I want friction and that means molding to shape (or close to it).

    Kydex, while being today's flavor of the week, also has the drawback of being just a little too good. Molded to a firearm it will last a generation, molded to a voice recorder it'll be perfectly molded to outdated technology/no longer produced shape by the end of a decade.
    Didn't know that being durable was a drawback. I mean how much would you invest in material for your confort, safety, and convenience?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Didn't know that being durable was a drawback. I mean how much would you invest in material for your comfort, safety, and convenience?
    My dad once paid a premium for a custom made suit. Probably cost twice what any other suit would have, but it has a lifetime 'no questions asked' guarantee.' It'll last for generations because of how well it was made. Was it worthwhile for him to pay extra for that durability?
    I dunno, but since it's a Nehru jacket, you tell me if you think it was a wise investment in durability and comfort.


    Durable with a firearm that's not going to wear out within my lifetime, good.
    Durable with a recorder or phone that's going to be replaced within 3-6 years... waste of money. Every Kydex holster I've come across has cost more than any of the voice recorders I've used, lost, or replaced.

    Do you think it's cost-effective to spend $50 for a holster for a $40 recorder that will be replaced with something else in a few years that the $50 Kydex holster won't fit? I'll happily take a nylon sheath that does the very same job for $10 and in a few years replace it with another for the same amount.



    Now.... if someone were to maybe make a voice recorder that had roughly the same physical dimensions as a Glock magazine, .... I'd be all over that like a frat boy on a free case of Heineken. Heck, make it as slim as a single-stack .45 mag and I'd still be tickled pink.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 09-21-2013 at 06:20 PM.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Didn't know that being durable was a drawback. I mean how much would you invest in material for your confort, safety, and convenience?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    My dad once paid a premium for a custom made suit. Probably cost twice what any other suit would have, but it has a lifetime 'no questions asked' guarantee.' It'll last for generations because of how well it was made. Was it worthwhile for him to pay extra for that durability?
    I dunno, but since it's a Nehru jacket, you tell me if you think it was a wise investment in durability and comfort.


    Durable with a firearm that's not going to wear out within my lifetime, good.
    Durable with a recorder or phone that's going to be replaced within 3-6 years... waste of money. Every Kydex holster I've come across has cost more than any of the voice recorders I've used, lost, or replaced.

    Do you think it's cost-effective to spend $50 for a holster for a $40 recorder that will be replaced with something else in a few years that the $50 Kydex holster won't fit? I'll happily take a nylon sheath that does the very same job for $10 and in a few years replace it with another for the same amount.

    Now.... if someone were to maybe make a voice recorder that had roughly the same physical dimensions as a Glock magazine, .... I'd be all over that like a frat boy on a free case of Heineken. Heck, make it as slim as a single-stack .45 mag and I'd still be tickled pink.
    I thought we were talking about making a kydex cell phone holster - my mistake.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    No problem.
    My last cellphone lasted for 6 years (only replaced because I switched plans, it was/is a tank). The new one... not sure yet but I'd probably go with mass produced plastic over custom molded Kydex just due to the cost factor.

    Paying extra for the absolute very best isn't always a good idea. I'm sure someone, somewhere paid a premium for the very best buggy whip made back in the early 1900's and it's still every bit as good today as it ever was. I don't think they're getting their money's worth out of it today without any buggies on the road however.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    My dad once paid a premium for a custom made suit. Probably cost twice what any other suit would have, but it has a lifetime 'no questions asked' guarantee.' It'll last for generations because of how well it was made. Was it worthwhile for him to pay extra for that durability?
    I dunno, but since it's a Nehru jacket, you tell me if you think it was a wise investment in durability and comfort.


    Durable with a firearm that's not going to wear out within my lifetime, good.
    Durable with a recorder or phone that's going to be replaced within 3-6 years... waste of money. Every Kydex holster I've come across has cost more than any of the voice recorders I've used, lost, or replaced.

    Do you think it's cost-effective to spend $50 for a holster for a $40 recorder that will be replaced with something else in a few years that the $50 Kydex holster won't fit? I'll happily take a nylon sheath that does the very same job for $10 and in a few years replace it with another for the same amount.



    Now.... if someone were to maybe make a voice recorder that had roughly the same physical dimensions as a Glock magazine, .... I'd be all over that like a frat boy on a free case of Heineken. Heck, make it as slim as a single-stack .45 mag and I'd still be tickled pink.
    As for the nehru jacket, if it's in black, take it to the nearest Catholic church (Roman or Anglican).

    As for the recorder, the RCA VR5320 mentioned in a previous post fits nice & snug in a Glock magazine holder (at least the 40SW size...
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  23. #23
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    As for the recorder, the RCA VR5320 mentioned in a previous post fits nice & snug in a Glock magazine holder (at least the 40SW size...

    I think I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I'm doing VR shopping.

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    I've had a few recorders over the past several years. My observation is that the olympis recorder had the best quality audio and the best battery life of the three brands I've owned. RCA was the worse, with Sony in the middle.

    I'm a big fan of rechargeable aaa batteries.

    I also think the best quality audio is obtained while carrying the recorder in a mag pouch. However recording from inside pants pocket generally yields acceptable results, especially while standing still.

    iPhone records excellent audio while carried in a case attacked to your belt. Also records acceptable audio from inside pocket. I use phone as a backup when I am carrying in a place with a higher likelihood of an interaction. Phone will stop recording if a call is received, or memory is full. Therefore a phone is a poor primary recording device.

    I did have an msp trooper take my audio recorder from my mag pouch and repeatedly try to delete the audio after he unlawfully detained me. He was putting my firearm back into my holster when he saw the recorder. Carrying it in plain site can be a disadvantage.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 09-22-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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    I ended up getting a small microphone for it.

    Two things I have realized since I started using this thing.

    1. I talk to myself quite a bit.

    2. I sigh a lot.

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