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Thread: where is it!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    where is it!

    Where can I find this? my google foo is weak.
    An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    I want to read the actual wording to see that OC without a CPL is illegal.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Very weak, indeed, for an IT guy.....

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...opic,25.0.html
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rhw...me=mcl-28-425o

    In particular,
    /snip/

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    (2) Subject to subsection (5), an individual shall not carry a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology on any of the premises described in subsection (1).

    (3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
    /snip/

    In other words, you won't find any law that states thet it IS legal....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    hmmm, ok, how about where in the law where it says you cannot OC in a business that has a liquor license like Meijers without a cpl?
    Last edited by Raggs; 09-14-2013 at 07:33 PM.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    hmmm, ok, how about where in the law where it says you cannot OC in a business that has a liquor license like Meijers without a cpl?
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?m...-1933-Ex-Sess-

    This was repealed and replaced with http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-Act-58-of-1998

    The intent of the legislature remains.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    hmmm, ok, how about where in the law where it says you cannot OC in a business that has a liquor license like Meijers without a cpl?
    the list of places in 425o, where you can not carry a concealed gun
    is very much like the list on the back of the CPL, where you can not carry a concealed gun
    the list in 234d is very much like the lists in 425o and the CPL, but
    234d is the Pistol Free Zones, but
    234d also has an exemption that says, PFZs do not apply to CPL holders!

    Sooo the smart guys in Michigan figured out that,
    With a CPL you are legal to OC in most of those listed places,.
    I believe that OC with a CPL is even legal at schools!!!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 09-14-2013 at 10:59 PM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    hmmm, ok, how about where in the law where it says you cannot OC in a business that has a liquor license like Meijers without a cpl?
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(pvd...e=mcl-750-234d

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    Last edited by Venator; 09-14-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
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    His point was that MCL 436.1 - MCL 436.58 don't exist anymore, and haven't since 1998 when it was repealed and replaced with the modern MLCC codified laws.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo View Post
    His point was that MCL 436.1 - MCL 436.58 don't exist anymore, and haven't since 1998 when it was repealed and replaced with the modern MLCC codified laws.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...58-of-1998.pdf

    Very last page of the new Liquor law says:

    (5) A reference in any other law to the Michigan liquor control act, 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8, being MCL
    436.1 to 436.58, is considered to be a reference to this act

    So when you are reading our 750.234d and it says:
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    It ACTUALLY, legally, reads:
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 58 of 1988, being sections 436.1101 to 436.2303 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    Last edited by jeffrey-r; 09-16-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Also, in the future, instead of Google you can search the entirety of the MCLs on the books HERE,
    Directly from the horse's mouth, as they say.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 09-17-2013 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #10
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    I thought it was a search for Bigfoot given the vagueness of the thread line ... now I won't tell

  11. #11
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I thought it was a search for Bigfoot given the vagueness of the thread line ... now I won't tell
    Even before clicking the link, all I could think of was Duke Nukem saying 'where is it?'

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