Tugging on a holstered handgun ain't funny, y'all

Silvertongue · Sep 16, 2013

skidmark said:
Kudos for coming out the far side without a major police report starring your name.

I understand it was "a friend" but I am tactically concerned about

Why chest level? Among many other concerns, there are a whole lot of bones that will get in the way of the blade going in. Also, cutting/stabbing the chest does little that I can see towards getting the hand off your handgun.

I carry a TDI http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76 carried weak-side. I have trained to cut across the top of the hand that is holding my strong-side arm or my firearm (there are blunt-edged trainers available) which will pretty much guarantee that whoever has a grip on you or your handgun will let go. (And if I'm positive it is just some idiot with no malice in their heart trying to show off, I can turn the blade and rake their hand with the back of the knife, which is painful in its own right.)

Of course, YMMV applies to this tactic as it does to all other tactics.

But I'd still like to hear why you chose to target the chest.

stay safe.

It was coming up from the pocket toward the neck/face area, but I stopped at his chest. I saw the look on his fave and how he seemed terrified, and just couldn't bring myself to continue that action.

That's the way my brother and I practice it. Sometimes it's a slash to the throat, and sometimes it's a feint just to get him off balance. Gotta play tough with him, he was Air Force Security.

Edit: Your question is exactly why I posted this. I want my actions picked apart the way they would be if it had come to spilled blood. Thanks for being tough on me, skid.

Silvertongue · Sep 16, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
The problem I see is that he pulled a knife. If I was there and was their manager ... if "I'm sorrys" all around were not made, they would not have needed to hurry to finish their lunches ...

Funniest thing is, dude tried to hug me ON MY STRONG SIDE. I decided to leave and make my thoughts on it known on social media.

"I love each and every one of you. Please refrain from unsafe jokes in my presence, as they will not be tolerated. If you simply cannot contain yourself, please don't make me hurt you to show why your joke is wrong. I'd feel bad about it later."

Hope that got the message across (and might look good in court, if it comes to it)

acmariner99 · Sep 16, 2013

Wow - adults acting like children. I once had somebody try to grab my sidearm just in an attempt to provoke me. That nonsense isn't funny at ALL.

If you mess with my guns (or my truck), you're gonna have a bad time.

marshaul · Sep 16, 2013

acmariner99 said:
...SNIP... you're gonna have a bad time.

[video=youtube;ynxPshq8ERo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxPshq8ERo[/video]

skidmark · Sep 16, 2013

Silvertongue said:
.... Gotta play tough with him, he was Air Force Security.

Edit: Your question is exactly why I posted this. I want my actions picked apart the way they would be if it had come to spilled blood. Thanks for being tough on me, skid.

Play tough with him? Sever the tendons/ligaments on the back of his hand. If your blade is truely razor sharp the medicos will be able to reattach some/most of them and he might be able to close his hand again. Seriously, he's (your former friend and acquaintence or just sumdood) got his hand on my gun, I'm thinking they mean to take it away from me, and not to admire the shiney parts. Well, not unless he anounced his intention to horseplay before he started. At that point, shoud it have gone down that way, I would have spun around on him and used my best Drill Instructor/Parent voice to ask him just what he was planning to do and where he had stored his brains before making the decision to horseplay. Pretty sure folks in rstaurants two blocks away would have heard me.

If I knew he was AF Security and thought he was making a grab for my handgun I would take it as a serious threat - he's trained! Let his attorney stand up in court and say his client, a trained individual, was horseplaying. I would like to know how long the judge would need to get the jury to stop laughing.

Just in case anybody is missing the point - unless we are in a pre-planned training scenario any attempt to snatch my handgun is going to be responded to as an imminent threat of death of death or serious bodily injury. Why? Because I have only idea of what someone would want to do with my handgun after snatching it away from me - and that idea has nothing to do with exchanging spit in the shower, as Gunny Highway once described it. Why anybody else would think otherwise eludes me.

stay safe.

MSG Laigaie · Sep 16, 2013

BennieH said:
I have to agree, it ain't funny.

This is Truth!

Silvertongue said:
On the up side, the holster did its job very well.

Don't ya just love a retention holster?

skidmark said:
Why chest level? Among many other concerns, there are a whole lot of bones that will get in the way of the blade going in. Also, cutting/stabbing the chest does little that I can see towards getting the hand off your handgun.

I carry a TDI http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76 carried weak-side. I have trained to cut across the top of the hand that is holding my strong-side arm or my firearm
Of course, YMMV applies to this tactic as it does to all other tactics.
stay safe.

You were semi prepared and denied access to your weapon.
You had a plan and followed thru on it.
You did not injure anyone (physically anyway).
No one injured you.

All in all, it seems to be a good exercise on your end. In my training, I do not react with a second weapon. I use my not so weak side and go for the throat. I will crush your larynx and you will let go of my weapon. It may take too much time to get a second weapon out, it may not be in your pocket, anything can happen. Your hand is always at the end of your arm and it makes a very good defensive device.

Gun Daddy PV · Sep 16, 2013

Crap!

Oh man, that co-worker is so lucky you were in a forgiving mood and had the presence of mind not to react in the completely legal way of slicing them from belly-button to sternum. I believe that co-worker, after going home to change their freshly-soiled pants, will think long and hard about the lesson they learned today.

By the way - well done on the self-control part of you for not killing them. You have my respect.

7om5hipp · Sep 16, 2013

Could have been a really short joke followed with a really fast trip to the hospital. So far I have only had one person go near my holster, family member at a reunion. Was seated and they came up behind me and patted my empty holster, apparently people don't enjoy having their wrists bent in odd angles, lol.

skidmark · Sep 16, 2013

Nightmare said:
Really?

Repeating my earlier:

Just in case anybody is missing the point - unless we are in a pre-planned training scenario any attempt to snatch my handgun is going to be responded to as an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Why? Because I have only idea of what someone would want to do with my handgun after snatching it away from me - ....

stay safe.

Silvertongue · Sep 16, 2013

Update 1

Tonight at work, he decided to get cute again and, as he walked by, he grabbed my safety cutter and pointed it in my face, extending and retracting the blade repeatedly. The whole thing was childish and made me worry that he didn't learn a thing.

I'm worried for his continued good health, should he continue to invade the personal spaces of others.

eye95 · Sep 16, 2013

Silvertongue said:
Tonight at work, he decided to get cute again and, as he walked by, he grabbed my safety cutter and pointed it in my face, extending and retracting the blade repeatedly. The whole thing was childish and made me worry that he didn't learn a thing.

I'm worried for his continued good health, should he continue to invade the personal spaces of others.

Why are you tolerating this? One of you should no longer be working there.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Rusty Young Man · Sep 16, 2013

Silvertongue said:
Tonight at work, he decided to get cute again and, as he walked by, he grabbed my safety cutter and pointed it in my face, extending and retracting the blade repeatedly. The whole thing was childish and made me worry that he didn't learn a thing.

I'm worried for his continued good health, should he continue to invade the personal spaces of others.

Seems like he didn't understand the first time around, and now he's making light of the situation, while making threatening gestures. I agree that one of you shouldn't be working there anymore, and I surmise that if this keeps up, this world will lose another idiot (hint: not the LAC carrying the properly holstered firearm).
Is there any way to get all of this on record with the company? This guy has proven that he lacks the maturity to treat others and their property with respect, creates potentially deadly situations, and laughs off sound advice about possible results stemming from his asinine behaviour. I can only imagine what this guy does on the company clock, and on their dime.

Silvertongue · Sep 16, 2013

eye95 said:
Why are you tolerating this? One of you should no longer be working there.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

I tolerate it because I need a job and my preferred response of verbally breaking my foot off in his derriere will get me gone.

So I let the manager know and flipped the "get over it" switch.

@Rusty: This happened near a camera, but I have no idea what time it happened or which direction the camera faced.

Hopefully the three consecutive off days will be good time apart, and he can do some soul searching while I post menacing photos of shredded targets and encourage the thought process.

marshaul · Sep 16, 2013

You should post some gun retention videos... Let him know what he's missing out on.

Silvertongue · Sep 16, 2013

marshaul said:
You should post some gun retention videos... Let him know what he's missing out on.

Heck yes.

That Air Force brother of mine has Wednesday off with me. It might happen, when we get that AR finished.

eye95 · Sep 17, 2013

Well, if you ain't trying to get him fired over committing a felony, I don't care about your bellyaching.

Moving on.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Silvertongue · Sep 17, 2013

eye95 said:
Well, if you ain't trying to get him fired over committing a felony, I don't care about your bellyaching.

Moving on.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

I don't want him to have to be fired. I want him to realize his actions are wrong and treat people with respect for the rest of his days.

Getting him fired is the second to last resort, in my mind.

Belly's just fine.

skidmark · Sep 17, 2013

Silvertongue said:
I don't want him to have to be fired. I want him to realize his actions are wrong and treat people with respect for the rest of his days.

Getting him fired is the second to last resort, in my mind.

Belly's just fine.

The only way you will accomplish this is by making his having done so, and possibly continuing to do so, as painful and inconvenient as possible.

Once he acted stupidly. Now he has committed assault with a deadly weapon at the worksite - both a crime and (I'm betting) a violatioon of copmpany workplave violence policy.

While I do not know you from the apocraphyl Adam's off ox, you need to know that I may not be the only one besides eye95 who is convinced that you are this >< close to losing all credibility.

Would you tolerate your children running around pulling kitchen knives on each other? Would you tolerate some stranger on the street coming up to you and threatening you - multiple times! - with a boxcutter? (You know, the same weapon that was used to hijack three airplanes and inflict September 11, 2011 on us.) Would you?

At least you "let the manager know". Hopefully he is more aware of the liability the company faces if they allow this yahoo to continue working there without taking some serious action.

But "flipping the 'get over it' switch"? You are brushing off the fact that this yahoo has twice tried to inflict serious bodily injury, if not kill you? If the company does not take action to keep the two of you separated you need to get a restraining order against him since you seem unwilling to file criminal charges over the latest episode.

Failing to follow that line of action, on the off chance that we might ever meet, you need to identify yourself to me as the doofus who "flips the 'get over it' button" when people threaten you with imminent death or serious bodily injury so I can keep far away from you.

stay safe.

Silvertongue · Sep 17, 2013

skidmark said:
The only way you will accomplish this is by making his having done so, and possibly continuing to do so, as painful and inconvenient as possible.

Once he acted stupidly. Now he has committed assault with a deadly weapon at the worksite - both a crime and (I'm betting) a violatioon of copmpany workplave violence policy.

While I do not know you from the apocraphyl Adam's off ox, you need to know that I may not be the only one besides eye95 who is convinced that you are this >< close to losing all credibility.

Would you tolerate your children running around pulling kitchen knives on each other? Would you tolerate some stranger on the street coming up to you and threatening you - multiple times! - with a boxcutter? (You know, the same weapon that was used to hijack three airplanes and inflict September 11, 2011 on us.) Would you?

At least you "let the manager know". Hopefully he is more aware of the liability the company faces if they allow this yahoo to continue working there without taking some serious action.

But "flipping the 'get over it' switch"? You are brushing off the fact that this yahoo has twice tried to inflict serious bodily injury, if not kill you? If the company does not take action to keep the two of you separated you need to get a restraining order against him since you seem unwilling to file criminal charges over the latest episode.

Failing to follow that line of action, on the off chance that we might ever meet, you need to identify yourself to me as the doofus who "flips the 'get over it' button" when people threaten you with imminent death or serious bodily injury so I can keep far away from you.

stay safe.

That "switch" is the only thing keeping me employed. My employer has a zero tolerance policy on confrontation; recently, a lunatic pulled a firearm in the security office and the associates wrestled it away from him.

All four were fired.

My only course of action is letting management handle it and getting over it, unless we meet again off the clock.

BB62 · Sep 17, 2013

Silvertongue said:
That "switch" is the only thing keeping me employed. My employer has a zero tolerance policy on confrontation; recently, a lunatic pulled a firearm in the security office and the associates wrestled it away from him.

But evidently not for acting in a stupid and/or dangerous/threatening manner with bladed objects.

Hmmm...

And associates who are fired for taking action to defend a rationally perceived threat to their life need to contact a lawyer and their legislature.

I believe Virginia is different than most states in that they value defense of self highly.

Tugging on a holstered handgun ain't funny, y'all

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Campaign Veteran

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Well-known member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Well-known member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate