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Thread: Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

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    Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=uipObTNp_6M


    The cop knows "what he is up to" ...


    Well, like me ... but I would have stayed on my property .. not put the gun down . And when they came toward my land advise them not to enter my property under penalty of trespass.
    As I have a notice for them not to come on my land..they would have been the criminals.

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    Libertarians are the lying branch of the Progressives. The others are the Demotic branch and the Repugnant branch, progressives all. Progressives believe that men are so good and god-like that they can live with no law but the Thelemic Law, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Admiration for Libertarian

    Excellent job. I have no idea why the two respondents so far like to "Monday morning Quarterback." Woulda, coulda, shouda. In my opinion, you taught the LEO's a lesson. You answered seriously when needed, and also never let the LEO try to mention that your rifle was pointed at him without correcting the record. I personally don't like bad language, but you didn't use it consistently. You were persistent. Once again, excellent job. Let us know if you pursue this incident further.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Is he proceeding with litigation? If anyone knows, or knows how to get updates on it, please let me know. I'd like to follow it.

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    this shows the power of video cameras and why police hate them so much. without video cameras on the law abiding citizens the cops would have arrested the guy and lied about everything. the dashcam video would have gone missing (probably still will) and an innocent law abiding American would be locked in prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Libertarians are the lying branch of the Progressives. The others are the Demotic branch and the Repugnant branch, progressives all. Progressives believe that men are so good and god-like that they can live with no law but the Thelemic Law, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
    You need to learn more about libertarians ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You need to learn more about libertarians ...
    Oh, like what? Teach me from your vast learning, you onus aspirant.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You need to learn more about libertarians ...
    Don't hold your breath. The "ignore'' button is your friend.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Oh, like what? Teach me from your vast learning, you onus aspirant.
    Might I suggest a book such as For a New Liberty by Murray Rothbard or perhaps The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard?

    If you refuse to invest the time any money to read either of those, I might suggest a few Wikipedia pages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism would probably be a good one to start with. You may also be able to glean some knowledge from the following page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberta..._United_States. I would follow up with maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...on#Libertarian. A good finisher (for now) could be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism. I've probably read each of these pages myself in the past, but of course it is the nature of Wikipedia that they may change, so they may have done so since the last time I read them.

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    You might try a book, a "p-book" that doesn't change, in this case Karl Popper's seminal 1947 (which is to say, not derivative) The Open Society and Its Enemies.

    I am sure your citations wax prolix on libertarianism, but you don't answer my charge of libertarians as progressives. At your fount of knowledge, Murray Newton Rothbard is listed twelve names away from Karl Raimond Popper in their List of Liberal Theorists. Popper's work preceeds Rothbard by twenty-some years.

    And no, you may not suggest a book to me. I expect to take two years to read 'Open Society' as I did his The Logic of Scientific Discovery, 1934 (as Logik der Forschung, English translation 1959)
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-15-2013 at 02:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You might try a book, a "p-book" that doesn't change, in this case Karl Popper's seminal 1947 (which is to say, not derivative) The Open Society and Its Enemies.

    I am sure your citations wax prolix on libertarianism, but you don't answer my charge of libertarians as progressives. At your fount of knowledge, Murray Newton Rothbard is listed twelve names away from Karl Raimond Popper in their List of Liberal Theorists. Popper's work preceeds Rothbard by twenty-some years.

    And no, you may not suggest a book to me. I expect to take two years to read 'Open Society' as I did his The Logic of Scientific Discovery, 1934 (as Logik der Forschung, English translation 1959)
    I'm not Oprah ... I do not do book recommendations. But as far as open carry goes, you must admit we are big supporters of carry.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-15-2013 at 03:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm not Oprah ... I do do ..
    Back under your rock, @nus aspirant.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Back under your rock, @nus aspirant.
    thx for the note .. corrected ... I would appreciate a nicer request for correction though ...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-15-2013 at 03:24 PM.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You need to learn more about libertarians ...
    I like the general thrust of your message about 2A, the use of video to keep the cops within legal bounds, and the increase in the police and sheriff dept awareness of an informed citizenry, but
    a) the language is detracting from your main message,
    b) your success to humiliate the Sgt when he was definitely wrong on i) saying you were pointing the gun and him, ii) he took your gun, and iii) the comment about lawful detainment, creates general sympathy for the cop just trying to do his job (with several major errors) and put up with a cussing smarty pants you either are or are acting like

    After watching this I am split - you are right on generals, but certain actions/attitudes you express don't want me to feel like sharing this with folks I want to bring along in educating them of their rights and how the cops have gone over the line. I certainly think it is hard to keep things under control when your adrenaline is pumping and a cop unholsters his pistol towards you....
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Re: Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

    What's with the hatred of libertarians? I'm a libertarian. If you think we're in line with progressives, then you're lost. It's a common misconception that since we tend to err on the side of some things liberals do like gay rights that we're progressives. The fact is we believe in complete liberty and removal of government from your day to day life all together. How can you claim to want small government, but then ask the government to come into people's lives and tell them who can and can't get married? You can't have it both ways. You either want the government regulating personal lives or you don't. There is no gray area.
    Last edited by ramkatral; 09-15-2013 at 04:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramkatral View Post
    What's with the hatred of libertarians? I'm a libertarian. If you think we're in line with progressives, then you're lost. It's a common misconception that since we tend to err on the side of some things liberals do like gay rights that we're progressives. The fact is we believe in complete liberty and removal of government from your day to day life all together. How can you claim to want small government, but then ask the government to come into people's lives and tell them who can and can't get married? You can't have it both ways. You either want the government regulating personal lives or you don't. There is no gray area.
    And not ALL libertarians support all the platform .. like all GOP members agreeing to everything their platform is ..

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    These cops need to be sued. Actually, he's right. Armed robbery.
    Last edited by 77zach; 09-15-2013 at 05:15 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Libertarians are the lying branch of the Progressives. The others are the Demotic branch and the Repugnant branch, progressives all. Progressives believe that men are so good and god-like that they can live with no law but the Thelemic Law, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
    I have a hard time seeing any validity in this statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I have a hard time seeing any validity in this statement.
    Clearly not a fan of libertarian party ...

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    Re: Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

    I'm not a fan of the party either. I'm a lower case libertarian.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramkatral View Post
    I'm not a fan of the party either. I'm a lower case libertarian.
    I am a constitutionalist with libertarian leanings.

    As far as marriage, it's up to your church not your state if you may/can get married or not.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I am a constitutionalist with libertarian leanings.

    As far as marriage, it's up to your church not your state if you may/can get married or not.

    Agreed, which is why I can't stomach these laws passed specifically to ban it.

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    Libertarians are the lying branch of the Progressives. The others are the Demotic branch and the Repugnant branch, progressives all. Progressives believe that men are so good and god-like that they can live with no law but the Thelemic Law, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I have a hard time seeing any validity in this statement.
    Thank you for weighing in, my honored disputant.

    I think that there are at least five assertions there that you are categorically denying.
    1. Libertarians lie that they are not progressive.
    2. Democrats, demotic, are progressive.
    3. Republicans, repugnant, are progressive.
    4. Progressivism believes that men are good to god-like and need no law.
    5. Alistair Crowley's Thelemic Law is: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.


    Anarchist's of any stripe, referring to "anarcho-capitalists", are progressives. The words very roots tell us ἀναρχία, anarchia, from ἀν an, "not, without" + ἀρχός arkhos, "ruler", meaning "absence of a leader", "without rulers"

    ETA: Wasn't Gavrilo Princip some sort of anarchist? Yes, looking to the vaunted Wikipedia, he was a member of the Young Bosnians that had anarchist leanings. The citation is there.

    But I've had a couple of cranberry tonics (equal parts gin, pure cranberry squeezings, tonic water, on crushed ice) ant this is awfully heavy thinking directed primarily at the unlettered - archly (id est look it up) which excepts you.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-15-2013 at 06:23 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Perhaps "anarcho-capitalism" is poorly named, but if you analyze the principles upon which the philosophy rests you will not see any alignment with your charge that a libertarian believes that men are good and need no law.

    Libertarians have gone to great lengths to outline ways in which a) law can be established outside of the context of a coercive government and b) law has been established outside of the context of a coercive government. Libertarians believe there are legitimate and moral ways in which laws, courts, and law enforcement may exist outside of the context of a government which claims to be or acts as if it is a) above the law which is enforces and b) entitled to a monopoly on the use of force.

    ETA: The derogatory nature of your posts is in poor taste.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 09-15-2013 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Lying cop ... another libertarian like me ...

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Perhaps "anarcho-capitalism" is poorly named, but if you analyze the principles upon which the philosophy rests you will not see any alignment with your charge that a libertarian believes that men are good and need no law.

    Libertarians have gone to great lengths to outline ways in which a) law can be established outside of the context of a coercive government and b) law has been established outside of the context of a coercive government. Libertarians believe there are legitimate and moral ways in which laws, courts, and law enforcement may exist outside of the context of a government which claims to be or acts as if it is a) above the law which is enforces and b) entitled to a monopoly on the use of force.

    ETA: The derogatory nature of your posts is in poor taste.
    Man posts like this give me hope for the world.
    Last edited by ramkatral; 09-15-2013 at 07:07 PM.

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